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elipsesjeff
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02-02-2005, 05:39 AM
Post subject: Finally, HEPFAP isnt useless anymore...
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#1 (permalink)
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Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (9 handed) converter
Preflop: Hero is CO with A , A .
UTG calls, 4 folds, Hero raises, 1 fold, SB 3-bets, 1 fold, UTG calls, Hero calls.
Flop: (10 SB) 8, 2 , Q (3 players)
SB bets, UTG calls, Hero calls.
Turn: (6.50 BB) 3 (3 players)
SB bets, UTG calls, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, UTG folds, Hero caps, SB calls.
River: (15.50 BB) 5 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.
Final Pot: 17.50 BB
Results in white below:
Hero has As Ah (one pair, aces).
SB has Kc Ks (one pair, kings).
Outcome: Hero wins 17.50 BB.
I've tried this play 2-3 times at 2/4, and I got burned. Then I tried it a couple of times at 3/6, and I saw no real difference. But, finally, at 5/10, HEPFAP works! BTW...the SB took a real long time to call that turn cap, I knew THEN I had him beat.
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Fnord
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Heads-up I like the play. 3 way it's harder to make up your missed pre-flop value bet post-flop, although this time it worked out.
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Fnord
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http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...o=14&fpart=all
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elipsesjeff
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I was debating whether to cap or not, with the other player in the hand. I wish there were more than just speculation at 2+2 and someone come with some odds or numbers or something. I'll have to take a look at HEPFAP and see what it says.
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Fnord
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It's not speculation. LHE is often a game of thin edges. 2:1 leverage on as big of an edge as AA has pre-flop is a tough one to pass up for an oportunity that may or may not come later.
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|~|ypermegachi
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
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this is a bastard play!
some idiot LIMPED preflop with KK last night, and i proceeded to pay him off when my KQ paired the queen.
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
It's not speculation. LHE is often a game of thin edges. 2:1 leverage on as big of an edge as AA has pre-flop is a tough one to pass up for an oportunity that may or may not come later.
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It is speculation right now, I don't see any numbers or percentages to prove either side. If I were to cap preflop I would get that extra 1 BB, KK would then check/raise me on flop, folding the other guy out most likely and then he'll call my three bet. Then just check/call me down. In the situation I'm in here, it couldn't have turned out better. Instead of capping preflop or flop, the turn was capped when it is worth 2x as much, with the other guy throwing in some chips as well. Whether it happens similar to this everytime is a bigger question.
Doesnt HEFAP say that by not raising, you avoid building the pot and subsequentially giving pot odds to draw out on you as well later in the hand? Thus, you wait for the turn here to raise?
Also, are you raising the flop as well? I think if you give your hand up too early then you don't get paid off as much.
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elipsesjeff
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by hypermegachi
this is a bastard play!
some idiot LIMPED preflop with KK last night, and i proceeded to pay him off when my KQ paired the queen.
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Dont get this confused with limping it, I would never flat out limp it unless I was planning on doing a Limp-reraise (which I have yet to accomplish).
I don't like to limp too many hands.
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Fnord
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Moderator
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Doesnt HEFAP say that by not raising, you avoid building the pot and subsequentially giving pot odds to draw out on you as well later in the hand? Thus, you wait for the turn here to raise?
Also, are you raising the flop as well? I think if you give your hand up too early then you don't get paid off as much. |
Can you cite pages?
For the most part, this kind of reasoning has been discredited.
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|~|ypermegachi
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Doesnt HEFAP say that by not raising, you avoid building the pot and subsequentially giving pot odds to draw out on you as well later in the hand? Thus, you wait for the turn here to raise?
Also, are you raising the flop as well? I think if you give your hand up too early then you don't get paid off as much. |
Can you cite pages?
For the most part, this kind of reasoning has been discredited. |
really? there was an entire section out of SSH about foregoing the flop raise to get the turn raise in.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by hypermegachi
really? there was an entire section out of SSH about foregoing the flop raise to get the turn raise in. |
Sure, I can see passing on a flop raise in some cases, but not capping AA pre-flop 3-way is passing up too good of an edge.
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by hypermegachi
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Doesnt HEFAP say that by not raising, you avoid building the pot and subsequentially giving pot odds to draw out on you as well later in the hand? Thus, you wait for the turn here to raise?
Also, are you raising the flop as well? I think if you give your hand up too early then you don't get paid off as much. |
Can you cite pages?
For the most part, this kind of reasoning has been discredited. |
really? there was an entire section out of SSH about foregoing the flop raise to get the turn raise in. |
Its possible I was mistaken and this is in SSH, but its in one of them....
I'd check myself but I borrowed my copy out to a friend 
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