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few hands at 5/10c fr...

  
 
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Chopper
Old 12-12-2008, 08:57 PM     Post subject: few hands at 5/10c fr... #1 (permalink)  
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Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
Chopper
a couple of thoughts, but a couple of questions, too...

1) this is probably a raise, if you play it. but, down here i like to limp these to encourage others to jump in that will take their own hands too far. i hit 2nd pair on a dry board and feel it's worth a stab since bigger kings will raise pre. however, i get called and plan to just shut down or call down depending on what the board does to me. when it pairs the 6, i will almost ALWAYS follow up here. note: this is almost a pure bluff because i doubt i'm good to much that called my original bet, but i may force another T or a weak K to fold....it improves my chances to win. again, when called, i plan to be done with the hand, but i catch total yahtzee on the river, and now am looking to CAP, if possible.

0.05/0.1 Limit Holdem
10 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($0.70)
UTG+1 ($3.27)
UTG+2 ($1.96)
MP1 ($4.03)
Hero (MP2) ($3.90)
MP3 ($4.05)
CO ($1.49)
BTN ($0.39)
SB ($1.88)
BB ($1.71)

Pre-flop: (1.4 SB, 10 players) Hero is MP2
3 folds, MP1 calls, Hero calls, 1 fold, CO calls, 2 folds, BB checks

Flop: (4.4 SB, 4 players)
BB checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets, CO calls, BB calls, MP1 calls

Turn: (4.2 BB, 4 players)
BB checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets, CO calls, BB folds, MP1 folds

River: (6.2 BB, 2 players)
Hero bets, CO folds

Final Pot: 6.2 BB

2) here is a quiz for you. we are getting 12.5:1 at this point, what do we do with the info we have?

0.05/0.1 Limit Holdem
8 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($2.60)
UTG+1 ($4.83)
Hero (MP1) ($3.93)
MP2 ($1.69)
CO ($1.30)
BTN ($9.03)
SB ($5.32)
BB ($1.55)

Pre-flop: (1.4 SB, 8 players) Hero is MP1
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, Hero raises, MP2 calls, CO calls, 1 fold, SB calls, 1 fold, UTG+1 calls

Flop: (11.0 SB, 5 players)
SB bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, 1 fold, CO calls

Turn: (7.5 BB, 4 players)
SB bets, 1 fold, Hero calls, CO raises, SB calls, Hero ??

3) this one i need some critiquing on. i feel pukey about how i played it. here are the thoughts... KQo is likely very marginal to play to an opening raise in this spot, but whatever. i like the flop, and dont mind capping once it happened, but i didnt think it would when i called the first bet. i felt i would possibly get raised once only having to call one more. i capped it because i was already calling 2 sb's here and felt like "oh what the hell." not the most scientific thought process, but is this as bad as it feels? turn kills my equity, and i cant get Ac to fold either, so i call and pray. when i hit, i feel its still only a call because i dont want to see MP wake up with the Ac and raise/3bet the river when i cant fold now.

0.05/0.1 Limit Holdem
7 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($2.48)
Hero (UTG+1) ($3.50)
MP ($0.77)
CO ($1.31)
BTN ($3.35)
SB ($1.99)
BB ($4.42)
[MP posted 0.07]

Pre-flop: (2.8 SB, 7 players) Hero is UTG+1
1 fold, Hero raises, MP calls, 3 folds, BB calls

Flop: (6.8 SB, 3 players)
BB bets, Hero calls, MP raises, BB 3-bets, Hero 4-bets, MP calls, BB calls

Turn: (9.4 BB, 3 players)
BB bets, Hero calls, MP calls

River: (12.4 BB, 3 players)
BB bets, Hero calls, MP calls

Final Pot: 15.4 BB
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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flopmonkey
Old 12-14-2008, 02:25 AM #2 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 85
flopmonkey
on the QQ hand..usually when I hit a good pocket pair with a lousy flop that is possible straight, and 1 or 2 people raise and reraise, then one of them has the straight 90% of the time. People love playing connectors. And in the lower stakes it would not suprise me if someone was playing a 5,8 or 8,J there.
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Chopper
Old 12-14-2008, 02:53 AM #3 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
Chopper
this is a clear sign of an 8. you are right. even with these odds, i can drop this. it was A8o.

like i've said, "dont be all that afraid of three str8/flush boards, but be VERY afraid of 4 card boards." especially, when the action opens up or a new guy enters the fun all of a sudden.

good answer.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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Lance
Old 12-14-2008, 12:09 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 210
Lance
my point of view:
1. you have to be ready to fold turn raise here, but well played
2. in this spot i would raise the flop and find out where i stand.
by calling never know if he has 2 pairs, set, or on the draw.
If he 3-bets i would be able to probably fold, especially from solid player and if UTG+1 called.
After the turn card you are behind and stand against. There is 22 small bets and you have to pay 2 for seeing the river card. Also we have to take into account if Jc falls on the river you can be beaten by Flush.
3. i would not cap the flop because you have no position (maybe its wrong decision). But nut SD and Flush backdoor look strong.
On the river i do value raise, Kc might be enough. There are plenty hands he could have. On the other hand by raising you can push out the MP, so calling its not wrong but again it depends if the bettor is maniac, pasive or solid player.
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Chopper
Old 12-14-2008, 02:15 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
Chopper
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lance
my point of view:
1. you have to be ready to fold turn raise here, but well played
2. in this spot i would raise the flop and find out where i stand.
by calling never know if he has 2 pairs, set, or on the draw.
If he 3-bets i would be able to probably fold, especially from solid player and if UTG+1 called.
After the turn card you are behind and stand against. There is 22 small bets and you have to pay 2 for seeing the river card. Also we have to take into account if Jc falls on the river you can be beaten by Flush.
3. i would not cap the flop because you have no position (maybe its wrong decision). But nut SD and Flush backdoor look strong.
On the river i do value raise, Kc might be enough. There are plenty hands he could have. On the other hand by raising you can push out the MP, so calling its not wrong but again it depends if the bettor is maniac, pasive or solid player.
i appreciate any point of view. i like to hear detailed commentary because it allows us to really start discussing things where there may be slight differences of opinion. here, lets break some of this down so you all can see what i mean...

1) i dont know that i can fold to a turn raise. anyone that follows me will pop the shit out of me in likely bluffing spots. just how likely is it, really, that i have a 6? if i am playing a reg that is capable of betting scare cards (i note that when i see it), i hit them with anything over a T here. i know if i have JJ, i likely have him, but even if i have overs, i could have 6 clean outs and am likely going the scare the shit out of him anyway when i 3bet his raise. the reason this works so well: microstakes players NEVER take non-made hands this far......and the should. (but, i'm glad they dont...lol)

2) again, this is a microstakes type move. normally, i agree to hit the flop, but its more for value against the crap that knows to bet here than it is to "see where i stand." you should already KNOW about where you stand. i prefer the term "define his range a bit more" although, i think this is mostly what people mean when they say "see where i'm at." but, at micros, EVERYTHING still calls a raise here. its a rather drawy board and plenty of stupid overcards chase this crap. imo, its a bit better to wait for a safer turn card since i am oop and have so many to act after me. (i hope you see that if i were to get outdrawn on the turn, it was going to happen anyway. so, i can let my hand go if that happened. its a one pair hand, after all. and, a raise on this flop will NOT protect anything. it only serves to bloat a pot against many fishies. i forego a little equity now to put money in the pot when my edge is larger. at the micros, you dont need to push such thin edges, especially when you can get away from a hand that turned into a loser because you waited) SB will likely bet again and i can raise that when more players are more likely to fold. imo, it reduces the schooling affect we fight against so often down here.

also, this is more of an obvious situation when the CO calls the flop and raises the turn...at the very least its two pair. but, more likely its a naked 8. again, 4 card boards with this many players taking a flop mean the nuts are almost always out...somewhere.

3) the way i see it, down here again, i have great equity against 3 players that will chase a flush. i have the Kc, if worse comes to worse, but i am playing for TP and/or the straight here. i have 2 overcards that make an OE draw. best case, its 14 outs. but, its more likely 8-12, discounted. 8 give me 33% equity when seeing two cards, and we ARE seeing two cards here. i have probably more than 33% equity, so with 3 players, we need to be raising for value, imo. if one of these guys has a flush draw, the other is about drawing dead and we need to put HIS money in the pot with his stupid TP hand on such a drawy board. so, once i raise, i dont like the 3bet, but i cap anyway, planning to take the turn off since that reps a big hand. i get the last salvo in and they have to be worried about me. if they are drawing, they will let me have a free turn card.....down here. (this is a spot i am trying to read better when i am the other players. NO FREE CARDS)

turn gives off flush, so i have to be passive, but i have a nice redraw, while respecting the Ac. i am receiving 10.5:1 on the 2nd nut draw (probably 11.5:1 because i dont see the other guy folding to one bet).

river completes my draw, and yes, normally, i would turn the jets back on here. but, i will get 2 BB's no matter what i do. and, if the Ac is out, i will pay 3 if i raise. why give him the chance? what else would 3bet my raise? and, you have to admit by raising, i may fold out MP and only get one BB, too.

better to play this one safely. i think we see Ac here quite a bit. of course, we didnt, because I AM A GOD! (just kidding)
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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