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Phyl
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08-29-2005, 02:15 PM
Post subject: Feeling passive
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 396
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Yo... I've been away for the last two weeks and wasn't really playing much before that so I haven't been posting that frequently. Now it's time to get back to playing but my game doesn't feel as sharp as it used too, one thing I've noticed is I'm playing slightly more passive and this hand is a good example. Does it look ok?
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx
Preflop: Hero is BB with T , T . CO posts a blind of $2.
3 folds, MP1 raises, 5 folds, Hero calls.
Flop: (5.50 SB) 7 , 3 , A (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, Hero calls.
Turn: (3.75 BB) 2 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 checks.
River: (3.75 BB) 9 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 checks.
Final Pot: 3.75 BB
Cheers.
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|~|ypermegachi
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
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i bet the river.
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RiverMonkey
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Flush
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 446
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I like a 3-bet pre-flop. One the other, given that it will be HU, your smooth call does disguise the strength of your hand. Any reads on your opp. that will help to suggest which play is better?
I also agree with Hyper re: betting the river.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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You know what you did punk...
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Raise preflop, raise the flop to see if he's serious.
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jmontis
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,296
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the flop call made me shudder, that's how much i hate calling. I would rather lose money to a raise than call him down
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take your ego out of the equation and judge the situation dispassionately
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by iopq
raise the flop to see if he's serious.
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Lots of reasonable players say things like this, but it doesn't mean that I agree with them, nor that I'm unreasonable...
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Phyl
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Flush
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 396
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by jmontis
the flop call made me shudder, that's how much i hate calling. I would rather lose money to a raise than call him down
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Why? Before I posted this hand I thought about aggressive flop plays since I knew I'd get advice to put bets in on the flop but I couldn't see how it was better than just check/calling. Not saying that you are wrong but I'm going to need convincing.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by hypermegachi
i bet the river.
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Considering he raised preflop I can't think of many worse hands he would call with here. I might be missing something but I can't see anything but 88, hence I thought it was better to try to induce a bluff. Am I overlooking something?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
You know what you did punk...
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Buh? 
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Phyl
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Flush
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 396
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Here's a similar hand:
I raise UTG with   , MP1 3-bets, MP2 calls, folded to me and I call.
Flop:    Pot: 10.5SB
I check, MP1 bets, MP2 folds and I call.
Turn:  Pot: 6.25BB
I check and call.
River:  Pot: 6.25BB
I check and he checks.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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I'm tempted to check/raise that turn. Any information on the player who 3-bet you?
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|~|ypermegachi
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
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dunno, i tend to value bet rivers like these a lot because too many players will call just to find out what you have (at 2/4 anyway).
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by hypermegachi
dunno, i tend to value bet rivers like these a lot because too many players will call just to find out what you have (at 2/4 anyway).
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That was a really terrible card against a passive 3-bet range. I would consider a check/fold river line.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by iopq
raise the flop to see if he's serious.
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Lots of reasonable players say things like this, but it doesn't mean that I agree with them, nor that I'm unreasonable... |
The flop raise is actually a value bet in small stakes since you're going to have the best hand most of the time.
Of course it's better just to lead on every street if he calls. Then if he has an ace, good for him. He probably doesn't.
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|~|ypermegachi
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
That was a really terrible card against a passive 3-bet range. I would consider a check/fold river line.
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i dunno, but i think even most passive players would probably bet the turn with all high PPs, but check behind big cards like KQ.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by hypermegachi
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
That was a really terrible card against a passive 3-bet range. I would consider a check/fold river line.
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i dunno, but i think even most passive players would probably bet the turn with all high PPs, but check behind big cards like KQ. |
Lets say his 3-bet range is reasonably wide but kinda tight. AA-88, AQ, AJs, KQs. Although, many by-the-book types won't 3-bet 99,88 even TT without provokation. Many charts also say cold-call AJs/KQs and TT/99/88 also tends to get cold-called quite a bit.
I really hate the lack of player information in these posts and am going with the tighish 2/4 player profile because they are often the players you are last to get a read on. The real donators usually show their true colors within the first couple orbits.
You beat 99/TT, tie KQs and are otherwise smoked unless he's putting a move on you. 99/TT/KQ/crap will sometimes bluff and get you to fold, but will also sometimes go weak and check behind. You can't call here getting 7.25:1 and it's not even close.
On the flip side, players in this game see enough aggro crap and will get married to a 3-bet hand, so he's probably not folding a better hand often enough to bet unless you have specific information suggesting otherwise.
A check/fold line is clearly +EV and you need to show that another line can beat it.
Prediction: He checked behind with KK.
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|~|ypermegachi
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
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i was talkin about the 1st hand. 2nd hand i raise the flop to see where i am.
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