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Fancy play gone wrong.

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dsaxton

10-01-2006, 11:22 PM Post subject: Fancy play gone wrong.

#1 (permalink)

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What's a better line here?

PokerStars 5/10 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is SB with T

, T

.
1 fold, MP raises, CO calls, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, BB calls, MP caps, CO calls, Hero calls, BB calls.

Flop: (16 SB) T

, T

, 4

(4 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, MP raises, CO folds, Hero calls, BB calls.

Turn: (11 BB) 5

(3 players)
Hero bets, BB folds, MP calls.

River: (13 BB) K

(2 players)
Hero checks, MP checks.

Final Pot: 13 BB

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pokerfanatic

10-01-2006, 11:41 PM

#2 (permalink)

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Well isn’t that a damn bitch...

Why not let one of the 2 original bettor bet first on the turn? I guess you're cold call does stink ass of a big had...

You 3 bet PF called a cap then cold call the flop? AA-TT would be a good guess... when you cold call I can't really see you having AK, AQ, AJ shit like that...

but there is 2 bettors in the previous round one bet other raised I would have to guess that one of them is going to fire another shell out there... I think checking might not be a bad idea... and then depending on the bettor if you c/r or c/c... if BB bets and MP calls you c/r it... if MP bets i think calling might not be a bad idea, then take the risky ass c/r on the river, or you could donk the river if you think he'll over play a boat to what looks like a runner runner flush...

But I think a more conventional approach unless you have a read they will fold and not pay you off is probably best...

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Miffed22001

10-01-2006, 11:51 PM

#3 (permalink)

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bet the flop!

pokerfanatic

10-01-2006, 11:55 PM

#4 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

bet the flop!

yea that would change the rest of the hand...

dsaxton

10-02-2006, 12:54 AM

#5 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

bet the flop!

I think I was planning check-calling and leading the turn, hoping to get raised by a big pair so I could get extra big bets. I thought if I lead out, called a raise, then lead out again, he might not raise me on the turn with Q-Q through A-A, and if I check-raise the turn, I would freeze him up completely, as well as knock out the other player. My whole plan got kind of screwed up by the guy who donked the flop.

Hartlin

10-02-2006, 11:52 AM

#6 (permalink)

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Well then I would yell at the guy who donked the flop and tell him he ruined the hand for you.. usually works for me..

pokerfanatic

10-02-2006, 12:12 PM

#7 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by dsaxton

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

bet the flop!

my biggest question is what kind of players the BB and the MP are...

you can best determine if your line was correct by if they are thinking players or not... if he would over play JJ-AA on the turn then a c/r might not be so bad... but if they would in-fact freeze up from it then it's a dumb idea of course...

as played i think your biggest mistake after being only called on the turn was not leading the river...

dsaxton

10-02-2006, 04:02 PM

#8 (permalink)

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Yeah. I played this hand terribly. I should've bet the flop.

arkitekton

10-04-2006, 02:20 AM

#9 (permalink)

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pokerfanatic wrote:

Quote:

but there is 2 bettors in the previous round one bet other raised I would have to guess that one of them is going to fire another shell out there... I think checking might not be a bad idea... and then depending on the bettor if you c/r or c/c... if BB bets and MP calls you c/r it... if MP bets i think calling might not be a bad idea, then take the risky ass c/r on the river, or you could donk the river if you think he'll over play a boat to what looks like a runner runner flush...

Good analysis. I think betting the flop is likely to slow people down here. I like the way you played it until the point where you donked the turn. I'd check then probably raise regardless of the bettor, then lead out on the river.

elipsesjeff

10-04-2006, 02:35 AM

#10 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by dsaxton

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

bet the flop!

these games tho the guys are too passive. You could probably bet the turn and a big pair will still raise you, with MP trapped between. Then you could simply check/raise turn and get max value, as a standard monster line.

However, You could also bet again the turn hoping AA will again raise as the last thing he will put you on is AT after 3betting preflop and your line, you can then get your three bet off. It all depends on how good a player he is, this is some 3rd or 4th level line here that will only work if he does have a monster.

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bigspenda73

10-06-2006, 12:18 AM

#11 (permalink)

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Your line screams of a monster here. The board is not drawy, the turn is a total blank, and you still donk it out. No way am I leading the flop/turn here, too much aggression PF and postflop. I probably raise the turn and lead the river.
Board texture is the most overlooked concept in limit hold'em and yet it may be the most important.

outphase

10-06-2006, 03:02 AM

#12 (permalink)

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I think betting the river here is a good idea. Some players don't know the meaning of the words "value bet" on scary rivers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lambchopdc

Lets stop talking ABC poker and move on to D, E, and F.

dsaxton

10-06-2006, 05:24 AM

#13 (permalink)

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I checked the river to say "I have a medium pocket pair but I'm afraid of A-K," inviting him to value bet basically every hand in his range (Q-Q, J-J, A-K, A-A and of course K-K). Since he didn't raise the turn, I didn't think he would raise the river, but I thought he would almost certainly bet and call a raise, so I felt this play gets the most value. Then he checked behind with A-A?

I posted this on 2+2 and the point that was made was that most players interpret flop aggression as weakness, so it really doesn't prevent you from getting in extra big bets anyways. One person even suggested I bet / 3-bet the flop, but I haven't decided if that's best (obviously it depends in part on my opponent. I didn't have much information on him, I was just assuming he was a passive player).

NWNewell

11-27-2006, 02:32 PM

#14 (permalink)

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Sounds to me like the old bet/raise on a paired board from a donk that doesn't have anything.

BB realised he was caught with his hand in the cookie jar and gave up.

Since you bet the turn and MP only called, he is obviously not real strong and could easily be afraid you donked the turn because you picked up a flush draw and be afraid of the third club. I think the only way you are getting any more money out of MP is if he will call you with AK. But they way you played it, I think it is likely that the third club will freeze MP even if he hit his King.

I think you should have c/r the turn and hoped they had something that would allow you to collect another bet or two. (hopefully, one if them has two overs and doesn't believe you have a ten and/or hits the river). But with you calling the flop and leading the turn, they will suspect you have a piece and will probably only call with two overs (but probably would have Cbet the turn with the lead and called a c/r with those two overs)

Might have been able to do better by donking the flop (as probably no one gives you credit for a ten) and only smooth call any raises, then c/r the turn.

But that is my amature take....

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