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Facing a HU Raise from an opponent on a flush draw

  
 
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ArcticKnight
Old 04-07-2005, 01:13 AM     Post subject: Facing a HU Raise from an opponent on a flush draw #1 (permalink)  
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I have a specific question about how to address an opponent on a flush draw when you are HU, and are 90 to 95% sure you are ahead.

Suppose the following conditions. It’s folded around to the CO, who raises, the button and SB, fold, and I call the raise from the BB with Qs 9s.

The flop comes 5d 9h 3h and I bet from the BB, and the CO raises….

What’s my next move? Suppose (based on his play and past reads) I have the CO on a flush draw. Also, the CO raise would be consistent with a HU play on flush draw, as it would be an attempt to buy a free card on the river by inducing a check from me after the turn.

Is my best option…..

(1) Re-raise post-flop with my TPGK, knowing that I am getting better odds than my opponent on his flush draw.

Or

(2) Call the raise and use the read I have to play accordingly knowing that an overcard (like A or K) might be scary as well, and also there is a 5 or 10% chance that I am actually behind (to a 1010, JJ, QQ, KK etc),

It seems that when playing 6Handed, situations like this come up for me, and I find opponents in drawing positions when I feel I am ahead. I know I should make it as expensive as possible for him to play his HU draw, but I am also vulnerable to overcards and, as noted, maybe I am not even ahead.

This raise or call thing here seems like such a 50/50 thing that it is probably going to come down to reads and not much more, but I wanted to check-in with you folks to see what you thought.

I have been raising in situations much like this, so any feedback would be helpful.
Gone golfing ..see ya in the Fall of 2006
PS. What did the snail on the turtle's back say?
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m3laNcholy
Old 04-07-2005, 03:03 AM #2 (permalink)  
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Yeah I've been getting this exact situation quite a lot lately.
I am almost always raising here. In the example you say I say you definetely raise. Even if an overcard beats you, I think you are making money here in the long run.
Now if he caps I would go into check/call mode if the turn is safe, or even muck it if theres an overcard on the turn.
Definetely raise though, for information about his hand.
Whether he caps or not can tell you a huge diffirence about his hand, who caps on a flush draw?
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|~|ypermegachi
Old 04-07-2005, 03:22 AM #3 (permalink)  
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how about this line?

call flop.

bet/call.

bet/call or fold.
---------------------

this is why i don't like raising. calling could mean they are drawing, or slowplaying 2pair or a set. if they cap back, they could still be on overcards and a flush draw. and very aggressive players would even cap back with just 2 overcards hoping for a free card.
 
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m3laNcholy
Old 04-07-2005, 04:27 AM #4 (permalink)  
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But doesnt raising give at least more info? Put in your read (if any) for the specific player and I think you are much better raising here.
Sure I've seen people caping with just overcards before (done it my self a couple of time too) but i dont see why calling would gain more here...

Btw your avatar RULEZ! #%$ poker I can sit back and watch her all day!
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|~|ypermegachi
Old 04-07-2005, 04:31 AM #5 (permalink)  
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hahah, someone's gotta represent the asian hotties!

the problem with these situations, as Arctic has mentioned, is it is VERY dependent on reads.

since it's a possible blind steal, people are more likely to be overly aggressive.

i don't like raising here because you will possibly gain flawed information.

the stop&go will confuse them a bit, and if they raise again on the river, most of the time you are badly beat. most players would just call the river down.
 
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Element187
Old 04-07-2005, 07:46 AM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hypermegachi
and very aggressive players would even cap back with just 2 overcards hoping for a free card.
that exact play has won me plenty of pots


although when i do this, im not looking for overcards, more like OESD's, flush and OESFD.
"Imagine how it would be to be at the top Making cash money, Go and tour all around the world, Tell stories about all the young girls." - The Prodigy - Girls
 
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Demiparadigm
Old 04-07-2005, 09:02 AM #7 (permalink)  
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I am agreeing with Hyper on this one. this is a perfect situation for a stop n' go.

One difference. check/call the river. If you bet, a worse hand will fold and a better hand will raise. a check could induce a bluff from a busted draw, and the check/call costs the same as a bet.
To win in poker you only need to be one step ahead of your opponents. Two steps may be detrimental.
 
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Room
Old 04-07-2005, 11:15 AM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demiparadigm
I am agreeing with Hyper on this one. this is a perfect situation for a stop n' go.

One difference. check/call the river. If you bet, a worse hand will fold and a better hand will raise. a check could induce a bluff from a busted draw, and the check/call costs the same as a bet.
I third this. I don't think you 3 bet here because you might be getting capped out of position. If you call and turn is a blank, lead and fold to a raise. If he calls, check call the river. When youre up against a set or an overpair, you lose the least. When someone is overplaying overcards or even a draw that is dry at the river, you will win the most. Only time I would deviate from this would be against an looser agressive player in which case I would check call to the river. Let him bet my hand for me w/o risking any extra bets when he's ahead of me.
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m3laNcholy
Old 04-07-2005, 02:28 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Ok guys you have me outnumbered here...heh.
I am really interested in this situation and would like to hear what others have to say. Its working pretty well for me thus far though and yes Asian (japanese actually) girls are awesome.
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Chicago_Kid
Old 04-07-2005, 06:09 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Room
I third this.
Do I hear four?

I must say that's pretty good if you can put him that confidently on a flush draw as opposed to a middle pair or AK. Either if these situations he's still be on a draw.

When you call and then bet out, there's no reason for him to put you on a pair. If I'm him with AK, I would raise you as well to represent high pair to induce a fold. Obviously I don't know your interactions with the player at the time, but I call the raise, and check/call down.
"Been gone so long, forgot how to poker"
 
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Chicago_Kid
Old 04-07-2005, 06:14 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m3laNcholy
and yes Asian (japanese actually) girls are awesome.
The only downer is the caution required at work when viewing FTR! But hey, it's worth the risk...
"Been gone so long, forgot how to poker"
 
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m3laNcholy
Old 04-07-2005, 09:46 PM #12 (permalink)  
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heh
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