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Bawookles
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05-16-2006, 10:10 AM
Post subject: Is it even worth bluffing at SSH???
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 35
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Hey, everybody!
I've been playing the $1-2 limit tables on Full Tilt and I've found my variance decreases significantly if I just don't bother bluffing. It seems at small stakes hold 'em there are way too many call stations and fishes to make bluffing even worth it.
Don't get me wrong, I'll "semi-bluff" by raising my big drawing hands like flush and straight draws but to just all-out bluff at a flop when I just have one overcard (or none) against one or two other players just doesn't seem worth it in small stakes hold 'em, people will call you with bottom pair all the way to the river.
Do you think I'm right on this or do you think there's still a place for all out bluffing on every street in small stakes limit?
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Myke
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 54
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Sure it is. I make a good deal of profit from bluffing at $25NL.
Two key things to keep in mind that seem to help me out.
1) Know your table image. The tighter you are, the more believable your bluffs.
2) Know thier table image. Bluffs work best against a passive player.
Poker Tracker helps me alot in deciding who and when to bluff.
It's all about the reads.
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silverfist
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 341
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For "all out bluffing", no. In SSH, people will call you down. That's your source of profit. You can still bluff, though, it's just a matter of picking spots. I like to throw in a bluff when:
a) The field checks to me twice.
b) The board pairs on the turn in an unraised pot.
c) The turn card is below the board in an unraised pot.
d) I raised preflop and got two or fewer callers.
That's pretty much it. Otherwise, it's just ABC poker for me, and I do fine. Your profit comes from people calling you down with weak hands. By not allowing you to bluff, you make more money when you have something legitimate.
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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I find that it is very hard to make stone cold bluffing +ev in ssh. This is more then made up for by the fact the all the calling stations give you huge implied odds. Also when you hit a hand they will pay you off. Also do not be scared to bet under pairs through out the hand. just so long as nobody pushes back. I know pro players say never bet with a hand that will only be called by a better hand.
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Bawookles
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 35
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by littleogre
I find that it is very hard to make stone cold bluffing +ev in ssh. This is more then made up for by the fact the all the calling stations give you huge implied odds. Also when you hit a hand they will pay you off. Also do not be scared to bet under pairs through out the hand. just so long as nobody pushes back. I know pro players say never bet with a hand that will only be called by a better hand. |
I think you are right about this. I frequently fold second pair on the turn if I don't get improvement but I probably shouldn't against all the loose fishes. And you are right, stone cold bluffing on SSH is hardly ever +ev because no one knows how to fold.
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arkitekton
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05-16-2006, 11:27 PM
Post subject: Re: Is it even worth bluffing at [url=http://www.flopturnriv
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#6 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: canada
Posts: 269
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Bawookles
Hey, everybody!
I've been playing the $1-2 limit tables on Full Tilt and I've found my variance decreases significantly if I just don't bother bluffing. It seems at small stakes hold 'em there are way too many call stations and fishes to make bluffing even worth it.
Don't get me wrong, I'll "semi-bluff" by raising my big drawing hands like flush and straight draws but to just all-out bluff at a flop when I just have one overcard (or none) against one or two other players just doesn't seem worth it in small stakes hold 'em, people will call you with bottom pair all the way to the river.
Do you think I'm right on this or do you think there's still a place for all out bluffing on every street in small stakes limit? |
Funny--I was thinking yesterday of posting on exactly this topic. My experience bluffing in 10,000+at the $1/2 tables at PartyPoker sounds a lot like yours at FullTilt. Many bluffs I expect to work simply don't. People call down with nothing or next to nothing. Genius that I am, it only took me a mere 8000 hands or so to notice this tendency and develop a counter to it. I'll still bluff now, but typically only in very specific situations against opponents who have demonstrated the ability to fold. And on the other hand, generally and simply value betting becomes the most +EV approach I can take. btw, PokerTracker was a big help with this. I review every session, and I noticed a lot of my larger losses on given hands (2bb-4bb) came from failed bluffs. Giving up those bluff attempts, and also learning to fold many hands making a pair or less to raises and especially check raises on the turn, has saved me a small fortune.
In other words, I think you're right. Generally, bluff only in very specific situations (such as those smartly noted by other posters) against specific opponents--otherwise, value bet. It's not as interesting as we'd like it to be, but it does seem to get the money. Last thing--I've noticed solid players will often take a shot on the flop with nothing v. one or two opponents, and if anyone calls, they're ready to give it up--they often don't keep pushing it on the turn and river.
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mike4066
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,943
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#1 rule of small stakes
"Value bet"
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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ssh players love to chase pairs. They'll call you down with Q/6 with ace and king on the board.
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arkitekton
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: canada
Posts: 269
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er, Mike, who's the incredibly appealing woman pictured with your post?
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TylerK
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME
Posts: 1,791
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Straightforward play FTW
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TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol
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Bawookles
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 35
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Thanks for all your thoughts, guys!
-Brooks
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mike4066
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,943
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This is where I found her...
http://girls.break.com/girl119_Amber1.jpg.html
She has more pics here
http://profile.myspace.com/astratt
and she hijacks another thread 
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Xanadu
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Full House
Join Date: May 2005
Location: st. paul, MO
Posts: 966
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Here are my 2 simple rules for bluffing SSLH:
1. Bluff when your opponent has nothing (no pair), but it is a better nothing than yours.
2. Bluff an opponent that appears to respect you when you show strength and seems to show the ability to lay down a pair.
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arkitekton
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: canada
Posts: 269
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mike--lol. In a word... impressive.
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