Poker Forum

Over 1,246,000 Posts!

REGISTER
Subscribe to FTR web feed
Already Registered?      Username:    Password:   Remember      Forgot Password

Poker Forum

  > 

All Other (Limit) Poker

  > 

Eupho's 1/2 Stat Post

  
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
euphoricism
Old 08-03-2006, 04:34 PM     Post subject: Eupho's 1/2 Stat Post #1 (permalink)  
euphoricism's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
euphoricism
Send a message via AIM to euphoricism
As requested..

Um, this sample is probably not very representative. As you can see by my "big hands", ive been running very poorly. I also began by playing around 23/20 on the last day of July, but by yesterday I was playing 18/13. Yesterday was also the worst card run of my career. The day before that wasn't too hot either ;p

Check out the rake.
<Staxalax> Honestly, #flopturnriver is the one thing that has improved my game the most.
Directions to join the #flopturnriver Internet Relay Chat - Come chat with us!
 
Reply With Quote

Play for FREE and practice your game at...

Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!
Ltrain
Old 08-03-2006, 06:13 PM #2 (permalink)  
Ltrain's Avatar
Flush

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 514
Ltrain
General comments:

For shorthanded IMO, you are playing too tight, not defending your blinds enough and not stealing enough. Just in general terms, VPIP, even as TAG, should be at least 23%. Your SB/BB fold to steal should be around 75%/55% and steal % at least 30% or higher. If your stats came up in my PAHUD I would put you on my left and steal with any two. If you 3 bet me, I would know the narrow range of hands you hold because of your stats. It's correct play on the marginal hands, over and over, that will put you on the postive side.

I don't see your AF but my guess is you are above 3 with your stats, meaning you bet/raise your good hands or fold. This is too exploitable and predictable. Work on your post-flop reads, watch your overcalling. For table selection, my rule of thumb for a perfect table is two guys on my right with approx 17 BB or less in front of them (best sign of a fish busting out unless you can target buddies or fish you have played with before) and two guys on my left with stats similar to yours.

Also, you are right about the rake, if the games suck, it may be a time to try something else like a SNG or small NL until the game gets more juicy, it will also refresh you to try something else for a break.

I made a lot of assumptions here and others will likely disagree with them, but I hope some of this will help you.
"Don't judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes. Then you are a mile away, and have his shoes." - Anon.
 
Reply With Quote
elipsesjeff
Old 08-03-2006, 06:29 PM #3 (permalink)  
elipsesjeff's Avatar
Moderator

Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
elipsesjeff is an unknown quantity at this point
 Pretty much what I have already told him.

He could always play the Stars game.


Check out my videos at Grinderschool.com

More Full Ring NLHE Cash videos than ANY other poker training site. Training starts at $10/month.
 
Reply With Quote
Ltrain
Old 08-03-2006, 06:42 PM #4 (permalink)  
Ltrain's Avatar
Flush

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 514
Ltrain
Quote:
Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Pretty much what I have already told him.

He could always play the Stars game.
Yeah, unfortunately I am leaning that way as well for SH LHE. I refuse to play the Monster tables and the tables were so bad last night I was playing NL instead (which may be the new "fish" haven by the way for lower stakes since very few players had a clue post flop).
"Don't judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes. Then you are a mile away, and have his shoes." - Anon.
 
Reply With Quote
euphoricism
Old 08-03-2006, 06:46 PM #5 (permalink)  
euphoricism's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
euphoricism
Send a message via AIM to euphoricism
As I said in my first post, my first several thousand hands I was playing 23/17ish, and dropped 100+ bets.

What about the effects of the rake? The rake here at 1/2 is obscene
<Staxalax> Honestly, #flopturnriver is the one thing that has improved my game the most.
Directions to join the #flopturnriver Internet Relay Chat - Come chat with us!
 
Reply With Quote
euphoricism
Old 08-03-2006, 06:49 PM #6 (permalink)  
euphoricism's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
euphoricism
Send a message via AIM to euphoricism
Could we also be negating the effects of our opposition? I mean, 60/20s are *normal* in this game. Isn't this a reason to be tighter than normal as well?

I know of several people who are running 18/13 and winning 2bb/100 (Harry is one of them) at this game.
<Staxalax> Honestly, #flopturnriver is the one thing that has improved my game the most.
Directions to join the #flopturnriver Internet Relay Chat - Come chat with us!
 
Reply With Quote
Ltrain
Old 08-03-2006, 07:00 PM #7 (permalink)  
Ltrain's Avatar
Flush

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 514
Ltrain
Quote:
Originally Posted by euphoricism
As I said in my first post, my first several thousand hands I was playing 23/17ish, and dropped 100+ bets.

What about the effects of the rake? The rake here at 1/2 is obscene
How were you playing post-flop? Just running bad? We all know 100 bets isn't much, especially in shorthanded.

Yes, rake is a major consideration. With an average rake of 3BB/100, are you at least 4BB/100 better than the luckboxes around you?
"Don't judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes. Then you are a mile away, and have his shoes." - Anon.
 
Reply With Quote
Ltrain
Old 08-03-2006, 07:03 PM #8 (permalink)  
Ltrain's Avatar
Flush

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 514
Ltrain
Quote:
Originally Posted by euphoricism
Could we also be negating the effects of our opposition? I mean, 60/20s are *normal* in this game. Isn't this a reason to be tighter than normal as well?

I know of several people who are running 18/13 and winning 2bb/100 (Harry is one of them) at this game.
I try to avoid 60/20's on my tables or put them on my right to simply isolate and play the odds when they bet into me on every street and I mostly call them down.

Over what sample size? Tight play will lose you just as much in the long run SH as overly loose play; just in reverse (blinded away rather than betting it away). You can win with any stat; post flop in SH is more important anyway.
"Don't judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes. Then you are a mile away, and have his shoes." - Anon.
 
Reply With Quote
euphoricism
Old 08-03-2006, 07:27 PM #9 (permalink)  
euphoricism's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
euphoricism
Send a message via AIM to euphoricism
I've been playing the "running bad" card so much in the last month that it almost feels like I'm lying to myself. But I really don't think I am. I mean, I played 112 hands today before I called it quits. First hand of the day ran 99 into A6 on an A9x flop, turn 6, river A. I'm a 98% favorite on the river there lol. About four hands later, I have 88 on a QQQ flop, three handed, both opponents call down UI with AK and split my money when the A hits on the river. Some days youre the bug, some days youre the windshield, I guess. And you can be a bug for a long time.

So yes, I'm running obscenely bad, but I've been running obscenely bad for an obscenely LONG time. So at some point, you have to wonder, am I causing it? Am I making it worse?

I know my blind play isn't perfect. I can see the stats and say, "yup, not perfect". But I can't find why. My SB has been giving me trouble for a long time. I mean, look up there, -.13 in the SB sucks ass. But am I running bad there, or am I spewing? And I haven't been able to find that answer.
<Staxalax> Honestly, #flopturnriver is the one thing that has improved my game the most.
Directions to join the #flopturnriver Internet Relay Chat - Come chat with us!
 
Reply With Quote
euphoricism
Old 08-03-2006, 07:32 PM #10 (permalink)  
euphoricism's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
euphoricism
Send a message via AIM to euphoricism
The best thing I can think of is "more videos for FTR!" Maybe I'll do another one tonight and go the 23/17 route, and we'll see what happens. I have no doubt I run bad. But I also have no doubt I have some small leak that i'm repeating over and over and over. And its probably very small, and very simple, and thats why its avoiding my detection.

LHE is a game of perfection. Anything short of that and you're in an instant uphill battle.
<Staxalax> Honestly, #flopturnriver is the one thing that has improved my game the most.
Directions to join the #flopturnriver Internet Relay Chat - Come chat with us!
 
Reply With Quote
Ltrain
Old 08-03-2006, 07:40 PM #11 (permalink)  
Ltrain's Avatar
Flush

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 514
Ltrain
Quote:
Originally Posted by euphoricism
I've been playing the "running bad" card so much in the last month that it almost feels like I'm lying to myself. But I really don't think I am. I mean, I played 112 hands today before I called it quits. First hand of the day ran 99 into A6 on an A9x flop, turn 6, river A. I'm a 98% favorite on the river there lol. About four hands later, I have 88 on a QQQ flop, three handed, both opponents call down UI with AK and split my money when the A hits on the river. Some days youre the bug, some days youre the windshield, I guess. And you can be a bug for a long time.

So yes, I'm running obscenely bad, but I've been running obscenely bad for an obscenely LONG time. So at some point, you have to wonder, am I causing it? Am I making it worse?

I know my blind play isn't perfect. I can see the stats and say, "yup, not perfect". But I can't find why. My SB has been giving me trouble for a long time. I mean, look up there, -.13 in the SB sucks ass. But am I running bad there, or am I spewing? And I haven't been able to find that answer.
For the bad beats, nothing you can do, card gods kicked you in the nuts. But for blind play, let's look at some specific hands. In the BB, how often do you call a raise from the Button or CO with J,10o? Q,8o? K,7o? For me, unless I have a specific read the raiser is not a stealer, these are calling hands for me. You will say, "but I'm likely behind!", yeah maybe. But your equity will still justify a call.
"Don't judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes. Then you are a mile away, and have his shoes." - Anon.
 
Reply With Quote
euphoricism
Old 08-03-2006, 07:55 PM #12 (permalink)  
euphoricism's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
euphoricism
Send a message via AIM to euphoricism
Well, I can tell you that exactly. Let me run a filter.

K7o: I called once out of 7 times and folded on the flop. (BTN raised preflop, SB called, I called, c/f flop)

Q8o: I folded 3/3 times preflop

JTo: I folded 2/3 times preflop. The one time I played it was four handed.



Its difficult at 1/2. They don't "steal", like you would expect at a higher stake. Its like, ok, youve got a 50/20 on your right. He raises from the button, so youre in SB. You really shouldn't play many cards here, right?
<Staxalax> Honestly, #flopturnriver is the one thing that has improved my game the most.
Directions to join the #flopturnriver Internet Relay Chat - Come chat with us!
 
Reply With Quote
elipsesjeff
Old 08-03-2006, 09:11 PM #13 (permalink)  
elipsesjeff's Avatar
Moderator

Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
elipsesjeff is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally Posted by euphoricism
Its like, ok, youve got a 50/20 on your right. He raises from the button, so youre in SB. You really shouldn't play many cards here, right?
???


Check out my videos at Grinderschool.com

More Full Ring NLHE Cash videos than ANY other poker training site. Training starts at $10/month.
 
Reply With Quote
euphoricism
Old 08-03-2006, 11:08 PM #14 (permalink)  
euphoricism's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
euphoricism
Send a message via AIM to euphoricism
What does threebetting accomplish? Hopefuly getting it heads up out of position against a super calling station with weak ass cards? I mean, yeah A8 is playable. But K8? JTo? We have no folding equity against these players, but we also can't just complete and take a flop because that gives the BB incentive to spike a flop getting 5:1.
<Staxalax> Honestly, #flopturnriver is the one thing that has improved my game the most.
Directions to join the #flopturnriver Internet Relay Chat - Come chat with us!
 
Reply With Quote
Xanadu
Old 08-03-2006, 11:47 PM #15 (permalink)  
Full House

Join Date: May 2005
Location: st. paul, MO
Posts: 966
Xanadu
I play SB pretty loose with no raise, but with a raise, even a steal, I think it should be played pretty tightly. In general, I reraise in proportion to the stealer's range. If he's raising 40%, I 3-bet 20%. Otherwise, pretty much fold. I can't think of holdings I would want to just cold call from SB. I only do that as a slow play against a very aggressive player, and very rarely (once every 5-10k hands sounds about right).
Reply With Quote
midas06
Old 08-04-2006, 12:17 AM #16 (permalink)  
midas06's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NZ
Posts: 2,196
midas06
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanadu
I play SB pretty loose with no raise, but with a raise, even a steal, I think it should be played pretty tightly. In general, I reraise in proportion to the stealer's range. If he's raising 40%, I 3-bet 20%. Otherwise, pretty much fold. I can't think of holdings I would want to just cold call from SB. I only do that as a slow play against a very aggressive player, and very rarely (once every 5-10k hands sounds about right).
Reply With Quote
elipsesjeff
Old 08-04-2006, 01:09 AM #17 (permalink)  
elipsesjeff's Avatar
Moderator

Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
elipsesjeff is an unknown quantity at this point
 Yeah, pretty much what Xanadu said. JTo is in my 3betting range from the BB against most steals. As, even your average blind stealer has hands like T5 or J8 or some other random cards. Plus, you gain initiative and therefore is much better than just flat calling.

This isn't Old new Euph, I've seen you 3bet 33 what happened to that guy?


Check out my videos at Grinderschool.com

More Full Ring NLHE Cash videos than ANY other poker training site. Training starts at $10/month.
 
Reply With Quote
euphoricism
Old 08-04-2006, 01:43 AM #18 (permalink)  
euphoricism's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
euphoricism
Send a message via AIM to euphoricism
Someone told me to stop that.

I'm very comfortable playing a loose style. Hell, I LOVED being 30/20. It was FUN. Raise loose and thin on the cheap streets, and outplay them postflop. But it didnt *work*, and that's kinda important, right? I don't think it would have a CHANCE at 1/2.

You don't extract money from LAGs by playing LAG. You camp and let the math work itself out.

I'm just on a massive fucking downswing. Maybe I should move even further down. Maybe I should 6 table .25/.50 until this run of cards plays itself out. Of course, logically, I know that it would make absolutely no difference.
<Staxalax> Honestly, #flopturnriver is the one thing that has improved my game the most.
Directions to join the #flopturnriver Internet Relay Chat - Come chat with us!
 
Reply With Quote
elipsesjeff
Old 08-04-2006, 01:51 AM #19 (permalink)  
elipsesjeff's Avatar
Moderator

Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
elipsesjeff is an unknown quantity at this point
 maybe 6 tabling is the problem, as you arent actually "playing" poker but are trying to apply a standard TAG approach and develop an autonomy, which obviously isnt working.

You went from too loose to too weak tight. And, right now, you should be willing to give just about anything a try. Your downswing is less a functino of cards and more a function of how you are playing them.


Check out my videos at Grinderschool.com

More Full Ring NLHE Cash videos than ANY other poker training site. Training starts at $10/month.
 
Reply With Quote
Reply
Latest Poker News
KoRnholio Old 05-26-2012, 03:08 PM    Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
According to an email sent out by Mark Bryan, a gaming analyst at Merrill Lynch, the Australian government plans to legalize online poker sometime in the next six to 12 months. This move will coincide ...

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »
Thread Tools
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:58 AM.

Contact Us - Archive - Top

FTR Testimonials

All content
© FlopTurnRiver.com 		Advertising  |   Partners  |   Testimonials  |   T&C  |   Contact Us  |   FTR News & Press  |   Site Map  |   Search FTR

Full Tilt  |   Titan Poker  |   UltimateBet  |   Poker Stars  |   Ladbrokes Bonus  |   Sportsbook  |   Cake Poker  

Play Texas Holdem Online, Online Texas Holdem Strategy, & Poker Forum
This is not a gambling website.