Originally Posted by Gatlin Dan

I played this hand from the big blind following Sklansky's recommendations from the pre-flop chart for loose games. (I was wary of playing it too, but figured he knows better than I). Against a raise, in the BB he recommends playing suited cards down to 5-3s. It's obviously one of those hands that can be only marginally profittable and only when played correctly from the big blind. That was my reasoning for even playing the hand.

I knew that if I made the hand on the turn that I would be vulnerable to redraws on the river. that was part of the reason for the raise on the on the flop. I wanted to push higher diamonds out. I have about a 1 in 3 chance of my flush coming in two cards. With the amount of coldcalling at these limits I figured this to be a raise for value assuming at least one of the two would call and the original better would also call.

I'm not sure what you are meaning by gutshot; The turn paired one of my cards. I did not bet the turn because of the pair. If I checked the turn, I would concede the initiative and likely give away I was on a draw and missed.

This is some of the thinking that helped me play the hand the way I did. In terms of EV, I don't think they were necessarily bad decisions, even though they were risky and I was indeed quite vulnerable.

Originally Posted by steviebrutal

Im usually not comfortable drawing to anything but the nut flush (or K high) long handed. If you hit your diamond on the turn, if someone has a higher diamond than you - which is likely with 4 players going to the turn - they have 8 redraws to beat your hand. Its just a very vulnerable hand that shouldnt have been played in the first place.


Preflop wasnt THAT bad of a decision, but I wouldnt have played it - even from the BB. I understand this is microlimits - but thats no reason to lower your standards.

I am usually a strong supporter of aggressive action in all strong drawing situations - but you are very vulnerable here.

Originally Posted by Gatlin Dan

I am referring specifically to SSH.

Originally Posted by Gatlin Dan

I do recognize I was in far from optimal position to play a hand like this. If it were not for me already having money in the pot due to the blind

Originally Posted by Gatlin Dan

Against the preflop raise, if I had been in the cutoff or on the button, I couldn't cold call with such a marginal hand.

Originally Posted by Gatlin Dan

I would not entertain the idea of playing the hand from any earlier than the CO. In this situation, the only place this hand could even possibly have been played profitably was from the blinds.

Originally Posted by LockLow34

Add that to the times the flush doesn't come and the situation is really quite quite marginally profitable, if at all. And it's all because you put in that extra small bet before the flop. Better to just fold that out.

Originally Posted by LockLow34

You need to re-gear your thinking a bit here. First, once money is in the pot it is the pot's, not yours. This includes money from posted blinds. So just because you've put in a small bet in the big blind doesn't mean you have to call a raise. You'll end up putting 1.5-3 more bets into the pot to chase 1 small bet. Not profitable, and you have to think long term profitablility.

Believe me, it took me a long time to figure out I was losing LOADS of chips playing marginal hands from the blinds. I had to really tighten up in the blinds, and I definitely think it helped me be able to hold my stack. Position, more than anything else, is what is important. A good player can really make you pay to draw to your flush - something you want to do rather cheaply.

Originally Posted by elipsesjeff

Not necessarily LockLow. If you limped in UTG and were raised, you should call that raise as long as its one bet back to you. If its two bets back to you, you should probably fold.

Originally Posted by elipsesjeff

The blinds are a different story, if you hold complete trash dont bother calling the raise, only call a raise in the BB with cards you would play on the button. In this case, he would have played this hand on the button, but only if there were more callers.

Originally Posted by "elipsesjeff
Not necessarily LockLow. If you limped in UTG and were raised, you should call that raise as long as its one bet back to you. If its two bets back to you, you should probably fold.

The blinds are a different story, if you hold complete trash dont bother calling the raise, only call a raise in the BB with cards you would play on the button. In this case, he would have played this hand on the button, but only if there were more callers.[/quote

Because I would play hand from the blind I would play in late position, and because it wasn't total trash, would this call be a good call using this rationale?

Originally Posted by LockLow34

Depends on what you limped with. JTs, yes, but AKs or AQs no, I'd probably cap at that point, especially if I could isolate the initial raiser. If he calls 2 cold I know he's got a good one. I'd never limp UTG with 64s though.

I'm still not convinced playing a hand like 64s from the big blind is a profitable situation though. I would call with something like J9o or better, maybe suited connectors down to T8s. Then again if it's a family pot you HAVE to call, since the implied odds are so great if you flop a str8 or trips or something.

Maybe play in the blinds deserves its own thread?

Originally Posted by LockLaw34

I'm still not convinced playing a hand like 64s from the big blind is a profitable situation though. I would call with something like J9o or better, maybe suited connectors down to T8s. Then again if it's a family pot you HAVE to call, since the implied odds are so great if you flop a str8 or trips or something.

Originally Posted by Gatlin Dan

I think calling preflop was most likely correct.

Originally Posted by Gatlin Dan

Now for the harsh reality queston. Given how I played the hand, did I suckout on him? I know I didn't make my hand untill the river, but was it a true fish suckout? It may not have been perfectly played, but was his "suck me dry" comment warranted?

Originally Posted by Fnord

Yeah, you're a horrible player. Betting/raising without a made hand, who does that?!?! *

Originally Posted by Gatlin Dan

I think a playing from the blinds forum (or thread) would be a good idea. I don't think I'm the only out there who makes questionable plays from them. I know hands can be played profitably from the blinds that would not normally be, but knowing what to play from the sb and from the bb against a raise are things that could probably lead to much significant and meaningful discussion.