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Which down cards should you play in a 2-4 limit cash game?

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Broadway_Kid

11-19-2005, 10:47 PM Post subject: Which down cards should you play in a 2-4 limit cash game?

#1 (permalink)

Join Date: Nov 2005

Location: Tigard, OR

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I have recently found success in limit 2-4 games and wanted to improve my skills. I was wondering which were the best pocket cards to start with. I've found that patience is so important because I fold about 80% of the hands I'm dealt. Here's what I'll play:

Mid to high pairs, low pairs if I can get in cheap
A, anything suited
10's or better split
suited connectors

Are there any cards here you wouldn't play, or any cards that aren't listed that you would play. My goal is to play limit games full time, to do that I need to play percentages so over time I will come out ahead. Any other tips would be very helpful. Thanks guys for the time

Nick Hooyman
Tigard, OR
hoooyman70@hotmail.com

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Andy Holt

11-19-2005, 10:57 PM

#2 (permalink)

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The cards you play preflop is directly dependent on your position relative to the dealer button on the table. Also, preflop play (your down cards) is a good start to learning how to maximize your statistical edges but there's a lot more to it than that. In limit, you'll win or lose money mostly because of the decisions you make after the flop.

I would recommend the book Small Stakes Hold 'em, by Ed Miller and David Sklansky. Also Winning Low Limit Hold 'em by Lee Jones is a good book for beating the low-stakes limit games. Those two books will tell you all you need to know about how to push edges and make money in the 2-4 limit game. Just study hard and apply your new knowledge at the tables and you'll be a big winner in no time.

Broadway_Kid

11-20-2005, 05:35 AM

#3 (permalink)

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Hey man thanks for the tip. I will go and get those books tomorrow and let you know when I'm done reading on what I learned and what I will apply. What do you usually play, limit or no limit? tournaments or cash games?

The_Bankroll

11-20-2005, 06:29 AM

#4 (permalink)

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pre-flop play is definetly dependant on position. it's good to have a idea of what hands to play early, middle, and late. for example:

early position: KQs+, AQo, AKo, TT+
middle position: all of the above plus: AJs, AJo, KQo, KJs, 88+
late position: all of the above plus: KT0+, A2s+, 77, and 78s+ and 22-66 based on odds.

ihategnomes

11-20-2005, 10:33 AM

#5 (permalink)

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In EP you can really plany 2 suited face cards.

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Andy Holt

11-20-2005, 01:24 PM

#6 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Broadway_Kid

What do you usually play, limit or no limit? tournaments or cash games?

Well, from reading this board you probably noticed that most players specialize in some form of the game... I've kinda bounced around between SNGs and MTTs but right now I'm playing limit hold 'em (cash game). It's a good place to get your start in poker, and you'll probably give other forms a try too down the road. I am of the mind that you don't really have to specialize to make money, plus it's less boring that way

Poker is all about experience, so don't worry if you're not banking right away. Consider it a worthy investment of your time and money that will eventually, with time and experience and WORK, start to pay out some serious cash.

The_Bankroll

11-20-2005, 05:08 PM

#7 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ihategnomes

In LP you can really plany 2 suited face cards.

FYP

ihategnomes

11-20-2005, 05:37 PM

#8 (permalink)

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No my post was fine the way it was, thank you. RTFM page 80 in SSH.

Field mice are fast, but owls can see in the dark.
<Bbickes> i still wanna know if the thing in your avatar is a real chick or not
<Bbickes> or am i e-crushing a dude

The_Bankroll

11-20-2005, 06:02 PM

#9 (permalink)

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you really think JQs in a full-ring 24 game UTG is a playable hand?

ihategnomes

11-20-2005, 06:17 PM

#10 (permalink)

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Do you really think its not? 2/4 is the perfect conditions for it. Did you not RTFM? JTs is playable from there as well.

Field mice are fast, but owls can see in the dark.
<Bbickes> i still wanna know if the thing in your avatar is a real chick or not
<Bbickes> or am i e-crushing a dude

Andy Holt

11-20-2005, 06:37 PM

#11 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ihategnomes

Do you really think its not? 2/4 is the perfect conditions for it. Did you not RTFM? JTs is playable from there as well.

Are you joking, gnomes?

The_Bankroll

11-20-2005, 06:52 PM

#12 (permalink)

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so gnomes, are you open-raising UTG with these hands? because I thought limping UTG was never a good play

ihategnomes

11-20-2005, 06:55 PM

#13 (permalink)

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Yep I will limp them under the gun. Have you guys ever read SSH? Outside of UTG, I never open limp. In loose passive games, aka, the typical 2/4 games I dont see how you cant play these hands. In fnords why you suck at LHE, there is a point that says "You open the pot for a limp outside of UTG/UTG+1 at a full table. " What does this mean? We can limp some hands UTG profitably.

Field mice are fast, but owls can see in the dark.
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<Bbickes> or am i e-crushing a dude

Andy Holt

11-20-2005, 08:08 PM

#14 (permalink)

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Whatever, I just don't like playing these sort of hands out of position against multiple callers even when I hit the flop. And I never open-limp.

Nehmer

11-20-2005, 08:16 PM

#15 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ihategnomes

Do you really think its not? 2/4 is the perfect conditions for it. Did you not RTFM? JTs is playable from there as well.

This is a way more table dependent situation than you guys are making it out to be. I have found lots of 2/4 tables where almost nobody raises preflop and there are always a few limpers, but there are also some good 2/4 tables where there is a maniac or 2 out there that might raise or 3-bet behind you a large percentage of the time leaving you heads up or 3 way in a raised pot out of position with a crappy hand. QJs and JTs are two hands that definately should not ALWAYS be limped UTG and should definately not ALWAYS be folded UTG. Playing them either way is definately not maximizing your profit at 2/4. I will say though that most of the 2/4 tables I find on Party are suited for folding QJs or JTs UTG(I just really hate being the guy getting isolated out of position with a mediocre or bad hand).

Nehmer

11-20-2005, 08:46 PM

#16 (permalink)

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To add to my last post, it might be helpful to look at 2 very different, but profitable table situations where limping will be good in one, but bad in another.

# Seats off Button - VPIP/PFR
7 - Hero
6 - 18/5
5 - 23/4
4 - 46/6
3 - 38/8
2 - 60/2
1 - 17/7
0 - 26/5
SB - 30/2
BB - 80/1

Now at a table with those stats, I would limp QJs or JTs UTG almost for sure. But lets take a look at a completely different good table to be at.

# Seats off Button - VPIP/PFR
7 - Hero
6 - 18/9
5 - 23/4
4 - 32/9
3 - 18/4
2 - 60/35
1 - 17/7
0 - 36/5
SB - 30/2
BB - 80/23

Now that table is probably exaggerated a tad bit, but I would definately want to have that seat at that table and would definately not even consider limping QJs or JTs UTG.

KoRnholio

11-20-2005, 09:10 PM

#17 (permalink)

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In my local B&M 3/6 kill game I will open limp with QJs all day. It's a typical no-foldem-holdem game. Usually 5-7 people to a flop no matter what the preflop action.

Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.

Fnord

11-20-2005, 09:12 PM

#18 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Bankroll

you really think JQs in a full-ring 24 game UTG is a playable hand?

I will play it in any game.

In a stupid loose game or against terrible players it's insta-profit.
In a more aggro game I raise it up for balance (weakest stuited broadway I'll do this with 100% of the time) and have had good results.

Worst case playing hands like QJs and KJs up front costs me very little because they are so rare.

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euphoricism

11-21-2005, 12:18 AM

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not to mention what it does for the "metagame"

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duckdown

11-21-2005, 07:04 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Bankroll

you really think JQs in a full-ring 24 game UTG is a playable hand?

But by raising in such a small stakes games, you are usually weeding out everything but hands that beat you. Why would you want to be in a 60/40 or worse (quite likely), out of position, against a donk playing something ridiculous like A-rag? Just a thought.

Of course, this is assuming the UTG open-raise scenario.

Fnord

11-21-2005, 08:58 AM

#21 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by duckdown

But by raising in such a small stakes games, you are usually weeding out everything but hands that beat you.

If the game is really loose, I start open limping.

Quote:

Originally Posted by duckdown

Why would you want to be in a 60/40 or worse (quite likely), out of position, against a donk playing something ridiculous like A-rag? Just a thought.

Of course, this is assuming the UTG open-raise scenario.

Good chance it's folded to the blinds who will make a mistake.
If called, I still have initiative and I have some deception if I make a hand stronger than top pair or nail a draw.

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11-24-2005, 07:47 AM

#22 (permalink)

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Seriously, RTFM.

pokerlearner

11-24-2005, 10:35 PM

#23 (permalink)

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Broadway kid, to answer your question. here are the steps you can take.

1) first read "low limit hold em" by lee jones.
2) play some low limit. following the book you will be playing "weak tight" but you will be break even player or better. Meaning you might not beat the game to the max but you will be doing lot better than average player.

3) then buy "small stakes hold em" by ed miller. read it, re read it, and then again. rinse and repeat

. you are now ready to beat the game to the max.

4) also remember, what cards you play from what position is important BUT NO WHERE AS IMPORTANT as what cards you can CALL WITH a raise. if your game is not solid there yo uwill be leaking chips long term.

5) read "newbie circle of death" and "bankroll managemnet" in beginers circle and you are ready to roll.

6) study more on "variance". sometimes you will lose a lot even if you play correctly.

7) WELCOME TO FTR. this is the BEST poker forum you will find on the net. here people are friendly and helpful (as opposed to condescending in other forums !!). you can learn a LOT from other expert players. I did.

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