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Bawookles
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01-19-2007, 10:50 AM
Post subject: Is doubling up good enough?
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 35
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Hey, crime-stoppers!
I just wanted to ask a question concerning when you guys think you've won enough on a particular night of limit hold em.
I'm playing 3-6 limit right now at Canterbury Park in MN, I like to sit down with 20 times the big bet so I always start with $120. My goal for any particular night is to at least double up my starting stack (so $240 in this case). When I get to $240 I certainly try for more but if I notice my chips are starting to fall back again to $240 I usually get out of there with my winnings.
Is this too conservative? Should I be staying longer and trying to accumulate more and more on a winning night? My win rate is about 70% with this method, 70% of the time I go home having doubled-up or better and 30% of the time I either lost my $120 or after hours of grinding got back to my starting spot for no loss.
Just wondering if I should be setting my sights higher or if this is a good, safe method of accumulating profit and building a bankroll patiently?
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sinky
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: SCOTLAND
Posts: 295
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The important question is, why are are winning or losing ? Not how much or how long.
Why leave a good table, that will keep on paying you, just because you have reached a $ target. Get some caffine and keep concentrating.
And you should not necessarily be quittng if you go down 40BB. Sure if it is a tough table or you are off your game then quit and regroup, but if you have good position at a good table then it should only be a matter of time before the chips start flowing your way.
The real skill is being able to adapt when the table conditions change (for better or for worse). Unfortunately for me, I all too often stay at a bad table for far too long.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
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Uh, winning 20BBs at a high rake casino game is pretty gome IMO no matter how soft the competition. Just remeber that a really great winrate over time should be something like 3bb/100 which is translates to ~700 hands which in a casino is nearly 24 hrs.
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Bawookles
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 35
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sinky
Why leave a good table, that will keep on paying you, just because you have reached a $ target. Get some caffine and keep concentrating.
The real skill is being able to adapt when the table conditions change (for better or for worse). Unfortunately for me, I all too often stay at a bad table for far too long.
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I guess that is my fear. Variance in low limit hold em with all the fishcakes that can sit down at your table is very high. You get some dork who plays K3off and Q5 and they get on some heater and keep winning with their crap hands, you get a table of a few of these players and winning a pot is like winning the lottery (for you and for them).
I just hate getting to a point where I've made a good profit for the day and see that profit vaporize due to a few donkeys getting lucky.
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trainheavy
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 11
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Bawookles, I'm from MN too. I haven't been down to canterbury yet. How do you like it? Ever play at mystic?
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Bawookles
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 35
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by trainheavy
Bawookles, I'm from MN too. I haven't been down to canterbury yet. How do you like it? Ever play at mystic?
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You should check it out some time. The play can be pretty loose so expect your variance to be high. There's always some yahoo who plays every hand and they will either be paying you off constantly or sucking you out constantly, depending on your luck.
Do they have hold em now at Mystic?
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KoRnholio
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,165
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Any time I sit at a 3/6 LHE game at the casino, I can usually pinpoint the 1-2 hands that made me a winner for the session. Quite often it's a flush or straight draw that hits on the river. Had it not hit = gone home a loser.
Crazy high variance, but as long as the game is good, you are playing well and don't have a different commitment to attend to, keep on playing.
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Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
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TDT
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1
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Is this too conservative? Should I be staying longer and trying to accumulate more and more on a winning night? My win rate is about 70% with this method, 70% of the time I go home having doubled-up or better and 30% of the time I either lost my $120 or after hours of grinding got back to my starting spot for no loss.
I do know what you're speaking of. When I first started out playing on Pokerstars, I only played .10/.25 blinds. I only transfered 50 into my account and I knew I was new, so I wasn't trying to get ahead of myself.
My advice, although I've only spent 200 hours playing Hold 'Em, don't start getting excited if you hit a couple times in a row. The best bet is to wait, and to wait, and to wait, if that is what it takes. I use to start getting a couple big hands, then getting overly confident and playing weaker stuff. Not a good bet, or a good gamble.
Your luck is your luck. A good poker player knows when the luck might have ran dry.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
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Here is the question: is the table exploitable for more money? At a 3/6 casino game the answer is invariably YES. I stay as long as I can continue to play solid poker.
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Bawookles
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 35
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
Here is the question: is the table exploitable for more money? At a 3/6 casino game the answer is invariably YES. I stay as long as I can continue to play solid poker.
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I hear ya. It's just that the variance can be so high at a table with several fish and when lots of people cold call two or three raises before the flop. It becomes less about poker then and more about who wins the lottery. When I'm up I tend to feel like I dodged the donks who will be taking back my money with their K5 off and 93 suited shortly.
Although, when I think about it, I always set a cap for myself in terms of how much I lose, if I bring $120 to a 3-6 table and I lose that money, that's it for the night, I don't rebuy and potentially lose more. Maybe it's stupid then to put too much of a cap on the money I win, if I try to triple up or more, all things being equal, those sessions will profit out over the times I just lose what I sit down with.
I'm gonna change my ways! 
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Xanadu
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Full House
Join Date: May 2005
Location: st. paul, MO
Posts: 966
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Leave the table when:
1. the table is no longer profitable enough to be worth your time
2. you are too tired to play well
3. you are too distracted to play well
4. you are too drunk to play well
5. you are tilting (may just need a break)
6. you are affected in any other well that makes you play badly
Part of being too distracted and tilting is when you have lost too much. It is a rare player that can continue to play their 'A' game after dropping 20-30BB. I read an article by Annie Duke once where she said she always takes her brother's (Howard Lederer) advice to never lose more than 30BB (I think it was 30, might have been 20) in a session. He said that it's hard to concentrate and play your best game after dropping that much, and you will usually do better to just call it a night and come back the next day.
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ChezJ
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 1,456
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doubling my stack in a short amount of time makes me play looser. i am often better off leaving or taking a break at that point, or else i risk giving it all back in loose calls.
but if you don't play any differently after winning a lot, and the table is still juicy, there's no reason to leave.
ChezJ
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