To donk on purpose early?

**ponyboy** · 10-30-2009 12:47 AM

Just finished a set of hands and had an interesting thing happen. Early on about ten hands into the table I got dealt A10 and I ended up heads up with a guy who was 100% VPIP over those 10 hands.

I tried to bet him off of the hand and he won with middle pair. No big deal because it was a small pot. However, what this seemed to mean is that he thought I was a retard for bluffing and I managed to win three much bigger pots from him because he was calling me down with crappy hands after that when I had better quality.

It made me think about (at small limits) throwing a couple of obvious bluffs out early so that your table image - if there is such a thing at micro limits - is that you are a bit more fishy than you actually are. However, this is also throwing away money so kind of stupid.

Comments?

**KoRnholio** · 10-30-2009 02:35 AM

With ace high on the river after betting twice, really all you are ahead of against a station is busted draws. So if you bet, you will really only get called by better hands for the most part. Calling stations won't fold for one more bet after getting to the river with a pair, so trying to bluff them is mostly just throwing money away.

**ponyboy** · 10-30-2009 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by KoRnholio

With ace high on the river after betting twice, really all you are ahead of against a station is busted draws. So if you bet, you will really only get called by better hands for the most part. Calling stations won't fold for one more bet after getting to the river with a pair, so trying to bluff them is mostly just throwing money away.

Agreed. And even with a busted draw they usually have bottom or middle pair, which they will call with anyway.

Sometimes with these guys I wonder if they just put a piece of tape over their monitor where the fold button is.

**Chopper** · 10-30-2009 03:24 PM

dont bluff those guys without some outs.....ever. but, bet any 2nd, or even 3rd, pair hand all the way until they raise you.

88 on a TJ4 board, i am betting into him all day long.
TJ on a KT4 board, same thing.
44 on a flushy board, same thing.
AJ on a Q63 board, i am maybe 2barreling with a note that he folds turns, but if he calls turn, i am done w/o catching river.
KQ on a K78 two tone board, i will barrel away and when the flush card hits, i b/c river usually.

doing the "image" thing against stations isnt going to help. they are calling you anyway. typically, save "image" plays for players that think they can run you over.

**Vegastripreport** · 11-02-2009 12:19 AM

Originally Posted by ponyboy

It made me think about (at small limits) throwing a couple of obvious bluffs out early so that your table image - if there is such a thing at micro limits - is that you are a bit more fishy than you actually are. However, this is also throwing away money so kind of stupid.

Comments?

I'd say no, because that assumes your opponents are paying attention. And especially at lower limits, this is unlikely to be the case -- even more so online, when they might well be multitabling, surfing porn, etc. all.

It's not exciting or creative, but I believe ABC poker is really the most profitable way to go at these limits. Anything fancier just costs your money.

**Stacks** · 11-02-2009 12:42 AM

You don't need to bluff in bad spots to 'dirty' your table image against villains whose leak is to call too often anyways. Especially since the overwhelming majority of players aren't going to focus on anything other than their cards.

10-30-2009 12:47 AM #1
ponyboy View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Jan 2005 Posts 390	To donk on purpose early? Just finished a set of hands and had an interesting thing happen. Early on about ten hands into the table I got dealt A10 and I ended up heads up with a guy who was 100% VPIP over those 10 hands. I tried to bet him off of the hand and he won with middle pair. No big deal because it was a small pot. However, what this seemed to mean is that he thought I was a retard for bluffing and I managed to win three much bigger pots from him because he was calling me down with crappy hands after that when I had better quality. It made me think about (at small limits) throwing a couple of obvious bluffs out early so that your table image - if there is such a thing at micro limits - is that you are a bit more fishy than you actually are. However, this is also throwing away money so kind of stupid. Comments?

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10-30-2009 02:35 AM #2
KoRnholio View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Jul 2005 Posts 2,753 Location Canada	With ace high on the river after betting twice, really all you are ahead of against a station is busted draws. So if you bet, you will really only get called by better hands for the most part. Calling stations won't fold for one more bet after getting to the river with a pair, so trying to bluff them is mostly just throwing money away.
	Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
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10-30-2009 02:39 PM #3
ponyboy View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Jan 2005 Posts 390	Originally Posted by KoRnholio With ace high on the river after betting twice, really all you are ahead of against a station is busted draws. So if you bet, you will really only get called by better hands for the most part. Calling stations won't fold for one more bet after getting to the river with a pair, so trying to bluff them is mostly just throwing money away. Agreed. And even with a busted draw they usually have bottom or middle pair, which they will call with anyway. Sometimes with these guys I wonder if they just put a piece of tape over their monitor where the fold button is.

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10-30-2009 03:24 PM #4
Chopper View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Dec 2005 Posts 4,612 Location St. Louis, MO	dont bluff those guys without some outs.....ever. but, bet any 2nd, or even 3rd, pair hand all the way until they raise you. 88 on a TJ4 board, i am betting into him all day long. TJ on a KT4 board, same thing. 44 on a flushy board, same thing. AJ on a Q63 board, i am maybe 2barreling with a note that he folds turns, but if he calls turn, i am done w/o catching river. KQ on a K78 two tone board, i will barrel away and when the flush card hits, i b/c river usually. doing the "image" thing against stations isnt going to help. they are calling you anyway. typically, save "image" plays for players that think they can run you over.
	LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS. Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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11-02-2009 12:19 AM #5
Vegastripreport View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Jul 2009 Posts 16	Re: To donk on purpose early? Originally Posted by ponyboy It made me think about (at small limits) throwing a couple of obvious bluffs out early so that your table image - if there is such a thing at micro limits - is that you are a bit more fishy than you actually are. However, this is also throwing away money so kind of stupid. Comments? I'd say no, because that assumes your opponents are paying attention. And especially at lower limits, this is unlikely to be the case -- even more so online, when they might well be multitabling, surfing porn, etc. all. It's not exciting or creative, but I believe ABC poker is really the most profitable way to go at these limits. Anything fancier just costs your money.
	vegastripreport.com
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11-02-2009 12:42 AM #6
Stacks View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message Join Date Jan 2008 Posts 3,970 Location Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.	You don't need to bluff in bad spots to 'dirty' your table image against villains whose leak is to call too often anyways. Especially since the overwhelming majority of players aren't going to focus on anything other than their cards.

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