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Fnord

09-14-2005, 03:55 AM Post subject: Dominate this!

#1 (permalink)

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Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,333

Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Fnord is UTG+1 with T

, A

.
1 fold, Fnord raises, 2 folds, MP3 calls, 2 folds, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 2

, 4

, A

(4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Fnord bets, MP3 raises, SB calls, BB folds, Fnord 3-bets, MP3 calls, SB calls.

Turn: (8.50 BB) 2

(3 players)
SB checks, Fnord bets, MP3 calls, SB calls.

River: (11.50 BB) 8

(3 players)
SB checks, Fnord bets, MP3 calls, SB folds.

Final Pot: 13.50 BB

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Fnord is UTG+1 with A

, T

.
1 fold, Fnord raises, MP1 3-bets, 5 folds, Fnord calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) A

, 3

, 6

(2 players)
Fnord checks, MP1 checks.

Turn: (3.75 BB) T

(2 players)
Fnord checks, MP1 bets, Fnord raises, MP1 folds.

Final Pot: 6.75 BB

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

UTG+2 is talking it up and raising pretty much anything.

Preflop: Fnord is MP1 with A

, T

.
2 folds, UTG+2 raises, Fnord 3-bets, MP2 calls, 4 folds, BB caps, UTG+2 calls, Fnord calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (16.50 SB) A

, 2

(4 players)
BB bets, UTG+2 folds, Fnord calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (9.75 BB) A

(3 players)
BB bets, Fnord calls, MP2 folds.

River: (11.75 BB) 6

(2 players)
BB bets, Fnord raises, BB calls.

Final Pot: 15.75 BB

2/4 TEXAS HOLD'EM GAME TABLE (LIMIT)
Table Table 32176 (Real Money) -- Seat 5 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: mattbeck ( $66.50)
Seat 2: hanford999 ( $81)
Seat 3: bravesfan44 ( $100)
Seat 4: Fnord ( $100)
Seat 5: Highballs ( $138.47)
Seat 6: Dreg48 ( $74)
Seat 7: pithog ( $102)
Seat 8: BRUNO513781 ( $41.72)
Seat 9: howudoing ( $80.86)
Seat 10: stevequ5111 ( $246.50)
Dreg48 posts small blind (1)
pithog posts big blind (2)
bravesfan44 posts big blind (2)
Fnord posts big blind (2)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Fnord [ Td, As ]
BRUNO513781 folds.
howudoing folds.
stevequ5111 folds.
mattbeck folds.
hanford999 raises (4) to 4
bravesfan44 folds.
Fnord raises (4) to 6
Highballs folds.
Dreg48 folds.
pithog folds.
hanford999 calls (2)
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 2h, Ts, Kc ]
hanford999 checks.
Fnord bets (2)
hanford999 calls (2)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 3h ]
hanford999 checks.
Fnord bets (4)
hanford999 calls (4)
** Dealing River ** : [ 2c ]
hanford999 checks.
Fnord checks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

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Demiparadigm

09-14-2005, 04:13 AM

#2 (permalink)

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Join Date: Feb 2005

Location: Party 6 max

Posts: 1,602

Hand 1: Do you have a read, or are you in a chip spewing mood post flop?
Hand 2: Good. Are you trying for a checkraise on the flop? I usually bet here.
Hand 3: I am the laggiest player I know, and I fold this preflop. I also usually raise the turn, but your line is better in theory. I like to raise my legitimate hands though, to give some credit to my bluffs.
Hand 4: I usually bet this river. not that a worse hand will call, but I like to bet a lot.

To win in poker you only need to be one step ahead of your opponents. Two steps may be detrimental.

Fnord

09-14-2005, 04:19 AM

#3 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,333

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demiparadigm

Hand 2: Good. Are you trying for a checkraise on the flop? I usually bet here.

I would almost never check/raise in this spot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demiparadigm

Hand 3: I am the laggiest player I know, and I fold this preflop. I also usually raise the turn, but your line is better in theory. I like to raise my legitimate hands though, to give some credit to my bluffs.

On a prior hand I 3-bet him with A6o, he said he had K3 in chat. We both folded to the 3rd guy who got involved in the hand. lol The K3 guy gave me lots of action. I like the 3-bet with ATo.

edit: the A6o hand

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Fnord is CO with 6

, A

.
3 folds, MP2 raises, Fnord 3-bets, 2 folds, BB calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (9.50 SB) 7

, Q

, 3

(3 players)
BB checks, MP2 checks, Fnord bets, BB calls, MP2 folds.

Turn: (5.75 BB) T

(2 players)
BB checks, Fnord checks.

River: (5.75 BB) J

(2 players)
BB bets, Fnord folds.

Final Pot: 6.75 BB

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

|~|ypermegachi

09-14-2005, 04:21 AM

#4 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: emo-kid

Posts: 3,580

definitely some high variance plays there...

Fnord

09-14-2005, 04:22 AM

#5 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,333

Quote:

Originally Posted by hypermegachi

definitely some high variance plays there...

Missing a river bet didn't help any...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Demiparadigm

09-14-2005, 04:59 AM

#6 (permalink)

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Join Date: Feb 2005

Location: Party 6 max

Posts: 1,602

Back to hand 1: My standard play lately has been to call the flop raise and donkbet this turn. Why are you 3 betting the flop? What hand range do you think raises you here after cold-calling preflop?

To win in poker you only need to be one step ahead of your opponents. Two steps may be detrimental.

Fnord

09-14-2005, 05:17 AM

#7 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,333

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demiparadigm

Back to hand 1: My standard play lately has been to call the flop raise and donkbet this turn. Why are you 3 betting the flop? What hand range do you think raises you here after cold-calling preflop?

It ain't a flush draw making that raise, the cold call looked like a draw or god-knows-what. So I 3-bet for value/information.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

stevedonel

09-14-2005, 05:39 AM

#8 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: Vegas

Posts: 617

Fnord, have you gone ultra-aggresive or what. All of your posts lately seem to be along the lines of:
1. get your starting hand
2. bet/raise 'til its capped on every street
3. wish you could bet some more

I know I need to loosen up (want to build the BR up a little before I start trying to fix something thats currently working), but you seem to be playing the part of the table maniac at times.

Could you post something like this?

Black out the winrates, etc. if you like; I'm really only interested in the aggression on various streets, SD, WtSD, W@SD, etc.

Is that guy still part of the forum??

Fnord

09-14-2005, 05:51 AM

#9 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,333

I'm such a nice guy...

BTW: Online players are very different from the B&M crowd in lots of wonderfully exploitable ways. Do you see why?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Fnord

09-14-2005, 05:56 AM

#10 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,333

Was curious where I limp/re-raised. Well the all-in raise wasn't technically a full 2 bets...

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Fnord is MP2 with K

, K

.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $3.66 (All-In), 1 fold, Fnord calls, 2 folds, Button 3-bets, 1 fold, BB calls, Fnord caps, Button calls, BB calls.

Flop: (13.82 SB) 9

, Q

, 8

(4 players, 1 all-in)
BB checks, Fnord bets, Button calls, BB calls.

Turn: (8.41 BB) J

(4 players, 1 all-in)
BB bets, Fnord calls, Button calls.

River: (11.41 BB) 5

(4 players, 1 all-in)
BB bets, Fnord folds, Button folds.

Final Pot: 12.41 BB

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Fnord

09-14-2005, 06:14 AM

#11 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,333

I'm such a LAgg... (from today)

MP1 is loose/passive but likes to bet out any piece of the board. Not likely to 3-bet Qx here.
UTG is another ATM machine who likes to call single bets because folding for 1 bet before the river is for sissies.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Fnord is MP2 with Q

, A

. CO posts a blind of $2.
UTG calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls, Fnord raises, 2 folds, SB calls, 1 fold, UTG calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 8

, 8

, Q

(4 players)
SB checks, UTG checks, MP1 bets, Fnord calls, SB folds, UTG calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) 5

(3 players)
UTG checks, MP1 bets, Fnord calls, UTG calls.

River: (9.50 BB) 6

(3 players)
UTG checks, MP1 bets, Fnord calls, UTG folds.

Final Pot: 11.50 BB

UTG looked tight/passive with the information I had at the time
BB is TAggy, but a lot of guys like that at this level don't bet the river enough...

The way I played this hand made me want to hurl.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Fnord is SB with A

, T

.
UTG calls, 7 folds, Hero completes, BB raises, UTG calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 2

, T

, Q

(3 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, UTG calls, Fnord calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 6

(3 players)
Fnord checks, BB bets, UTG calls, Hero calls.

River: (7.50 BB) 9

(3 players)
Fnord checks, BB checks, UTG bets, Fnord folds, BB folds.

Final Pot: 8.50 BB

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

stevedonel

09-14-2005, 12:11 PM

#12 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: Vegas

Posts: 617

Doh! You left off the one stat I was after in particular: standard deviation

I cut/paste the pic of that one into the bottom of mine, a number will do. Im just wondering how the lag part of your game is effecting your swings.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

BTW: Online players are very different from the B&M crowd in lots of wonderfully exploitable ways. Do you see why?

People view eachother entirely different online. In B&M you can spot a LAG 3 tables away, they're typically talking alot mostly trash talking, creating a ruckus at the table; while the rock is normally sitting there quitely, and calling stations....well, they're just complaining about how they keep getting 2nd best hands. Online, all they know is your betting patterns on previous hands.

Online, I make more advertising plays once I think I have lost a hand (AK wiffs, 66 no set, missed flush, etc), so that I can appear to be more laggy. 1 or 2 bets thrown down the toilet gets alot of action on my next several hands; and occaisonally I get them to fold anyway. People are so used to seeing idiots overplay hands online, I get some of them to lump me in with the crazy morons. In B&M play, these advertisements are much easier to spot and ignore based on other observations. I very rarely make these advertising plays in B&M games; even if they did work, I dont need them there.

Is that guy still part of the forum??

Fnord

09-14-2005, 10:33 PM

#13 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,333

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevedonel

you seem to be playing the part of the table maniac at times.

It's a well scripted act. I'm getting pretty good at learning what I can get away with and have enough discipline to get out of trouble hands cheaply. That's what seperates me from a manaic. I'm also the first to leave when the table becomes a poor fit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevedonel

Online, I make more advertising plays once I think I have lost a hand (AK wiffs, 66 no set, missed flush, etc), so that I can appear to be more laggy.

I don't advertise ever in terms of plays and never show a hand I don't need to. However, I will chat it up and make sure everyone knows when I showdown a real gem.

Consider that (mostly pre-flop) you're given a barage of betting prospects. Most are -EV, many are close and a few are +EV. I'm getting in there and gambling more and looking at poker as more of a gambling game. Table/seats selection puts me in more +EV spots per orbit. I'm also fearless enough to make the best play reguardless of results or risk. Sure I get involved in a bad spot every now and then and pick up some neutral spots, but is that a worse mistake than making a call where you should raise? Passing on an edge? As I've gained experience I've gotten better about tuning my spots.

I suspect my variance goes up, but so does my winrate. So the real problem (a 100+ BB downswing) is probably even less likely playing like this.

The play is so predictable at 2/4 and exploitable that I have a lot of FUN playing those games now. I can sit down and run over the table. The 15/8 crowd with no short-hand experience is really fun to play with.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Demiparadigm

09-14-2005, 11:56 PM

#14 (permalink)

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Join Date: Feb 2005

Location: Party 6 max

Posts: 1,602

The best thing that my experience playing 25/12 has taught me is how to play 15/8 and STILL show down some real gems and crush a TAggy table.
At 25/12 I was getting extra action on my legit hands which made the experience overall very profitable (Most 2+2ers would say that my 4BB/100 with these stats is unsustainable, but the more i played, the more I tend to disagree) This was MOST prfitable at a 5/10 table with about 20/8 averages. No one expects a "table captain" in limit poker...
One day, however I was clearing a bonus when one of the TAGs at the table made a comment about my stats being "solid" I checked in PT, and I was running about 16/8 for the table. I used this table image to steal A LOT. I started giving up some barely +EV calls, and started making more barely +EV raises. After 2 hours I ended the session up 20BB/100.
It is also always fun to show down 89s after 3 betting a LP raiser preflop.
Though (for Fnord) I still don't make this play with ATo

To win in poker you only need to be one step ahead of your opponents. Two steps may be detrimental.

Fnord

09-14-2005, 11:58 PM

#15 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,333

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demiparadigm

The best thing that my experience playing 25/12 has taught me is how to play 15/8 and STILL show down some real gems and crush a TAggy table.

15% VP$IP is passing up too many edges at a good seat/table. Also, a TAggy table would present so many blind war situations that I can't see 8% PFR being correct either...

Consider:

Folded to TAgg (10% PFR) who raises from the CO, you have KQo on the button.
As above but you have AJo
As above but you have ATo
As above but you have 88
TAgg raising from the HJ?

55/10 (plays even worse post-flop) open limps from the HJ, you have the following in the CO. Button is tight so are the blinds.
JTo
K9s
A9o
Q8s
K9o
A3s
66
22

As above, but 2 donks limp.
As above, but the BB is loose but folds post-flop when he misses

New table, HJ posts, you post in the CO. You have A9s. MP raises, HJ folds, your play? KJo? 77?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Demiparadigm

09-15-2005, 12:27 AM

#16 (permalink)

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Join Date: Feb 2005

Location: Party 6 max

Posts: 1,602

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Consider:

Folded to TAgg (10% PFR) who raises from the CO, you have KQo on the button.
As above but you have AJo
As above but you have ATo
As above but you have 88

3 bet.

Quote:

TAgg raising from the HJ

fold/3bet/fold/3bet

Quote:

55/10 (plays even worse post-flop) open limps from the HJ, you have the following in the CO. Button is tight so are the blinds.

JTo-raise
K9s-raise
A9o-raise
Q8s-fold
K9o-fold
A3s-raise
66-raise
22-call

Quote:

As above, but 2 donks limp.

JTo-call
K9s-raise
A9o-raise
Q8s-call
K9o-fold
A3s-call
66-call
22-call

Quote:

As above, but the BB is loose but folds post-flop when he misses

About the same...
BTW, I play similarly to "loose but folds when misses" from the BB.

Quote:

New table, HJ posts, you post in the CO. You have A9s. MP raises, HJ folds, your play? KJo? 77?

A9s-3bet
KJo-call (KJs 3 bet)
77- 3bet

To win in poker you only need to be one step ahead of your opponents. Two steps may be detrimental.

Fnord

09-15-2005, 12:40 AM

#17 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,333

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demiparadigm

Quote:

55/10 (plays even worse post-flop) open limps from the HJ, you have the following in the CO. Button is tight so are the blinds.

Q8s-fold
K9o-fold
22-call

I think Q8s and K9o are raises. 22 is interesting and I can see going either way but I probably raise for image. I'd really hate for one of the blinds or button to decide to go aggro when he otherwise would have just rolled over.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demiparadigm

Quote:

New table, HJ posts, you post in the CO. You have A9s. MP raises, HJ folds, your play? KJo? 77?

KJo-call (KJs 3 bet)

I can't see calling with KJo being correct here per Ed's 2+2 column on the subject. You can rule out folding and the dead money + fold equity dictates you must often defend with a 3-bet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

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