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Does anyone ever pull a fast one on you?

  
 
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epic
Old 08-13-2008, 06:36 AM     Post subject: Does anyone ever pull a fast one on you? #1 (permalink)  

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epic
I've made a few posts about maxing out your profits on big hands, but I rarely find myself being the victim of a massive slowplay on a monster hand.

I've been sticking around .25/.50-and I honestly can't remember the last time someone really played me. Given, at this level, I don't expect anyone to do anything really slick and pulling any fast ones-it's mostly people holding on to AK to the river =/

At what limit do you start seeing people who are able to put real plays out there?
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Chopper
Old 08-13-2008, 01:24 PM #2 (permalink)  
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from what i've seen, slowplaying more than one street really only costs you money. you only have so many chances to get BBs into the pot. not like NL where we can stack off on the river...by surprise.

LHE is more an accumulation of bets, by getting them in early, thereby committing our opponents to showdowns because of pot odds, imo.

each time i see somebody try and slowplay a big hand more than one street, he ends up costing himself money...and its obvious. i will then note him as a slowplayer and valuebet the shit out of him like a call station because thats what he has reduced himself to with his biggest hands. ...pretty dumb thing to do.

the only "slowplay line" that i feel is worth a shit, at low stakes, is the check-call, check-raise line. and, thats usually a pretty big hand.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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socal1111
Old 08-14-2008, 06:34 AM #3 (permalink)  
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As chopper said, you WANT these morons to "slowplay" in LHE. They're losing value.

The "pulling-of-the-fast-one" will be the turn semi-bluffing, river lead UI type of stuff... seen from $3/6 +. Once you hit 8/16, it's standard.

Quite a bit of river R/F 15/30 +
"We don't stop playing because we get old. We get old because we stop playing!" -Doyle
 
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Ragnar4
Old 08-14-2008, 08:08 AM #4 (permalink)  
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The only "fast one" that I'll put on players is this:

I watch for players who like to bet on the turn after they call 2 bets PF and F and they get checked to. For Example:

So lets say you have AK

PFraise he calls.
724 flop you bet he calls
T on the turn you check he bets...

THAT guy.

I like to PFR and bet out again, but when he calls I go for a check raise to teach him a lesson about trying to steal the initiative from me on the turn. If he calls down, good, make a note, do this every time. If he folds, good, make a note and bluff him with this line.

that's really the only fast one out there.
The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here?
 
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socal1111
Old 08-15-2008, 12:53 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragnar4
The only "fast one" that I'll put on players is this:

I watch for players who like to bet on the turn after they call 2 bets PF and F and they get checked to. For Example:

So lets say you have AK

PFraise he calls.
724 flop you bet he calls
T on the turn you check he bets...

THAT guy.

I like to PFR and bet out again, but when he calls I go for a check raise to teach him a lesson about trying to steal the initiative from me on the turn. If he calls down, good, make a note, do this every time. If he folds, good, make a note and bluff him with this line.

that's really the only fast one out there.
And then when villain reraises your turn C/R?

I take a note on your CB, turn C/R... and 3 bet you every time.

Let's play some poker!
"We don't stop playing because we get old. We get old because we stop playing!" -Doyle
 
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Old 08-15-2008, 07:41 AM #6 (permalink)  
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I've been slowplayed because I'm aggressive. So a lot of the time people will take several bets from me when they're ahead which I would not have called because my hand is marginal. But a lot of the time they're actually losing money because when I do have a strong hand I'd raise with it.
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Chopper
Old 08-15-2008, 01:05 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iopq
I've been slowplayed because I'm aggressive. So a lot of the time people will take several bets from me when they're ahead which I would not have called because my hand is marginal. But a lot of the time they're actually losing money because when I do have a strong hand I'd raise with it.
miller/sklansky and stoxtrader both tell you not to worry about this. they say that being aggressive exposes you to slow plays, but they are rather rare, and dont cost much for all the times your aggression, in marginal situations, folds off a slightly better hand because monsters just arent that common.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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Chopper
Old 08-16-2008, 04:17 AM #8 (permalink)  
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here is WHY you dont slowplay LHE games. i will explain my retarded thought process along the way...

0.05/0.1 Limit Holdem
8 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($11.47)
UTG+1 ($1.36)
MP1 ($0.84)
MP2 ($5.05)
CO ($2.00)
BTN ($0.08)
Hero ($1.58)
BB ($3.86)
[CO posted 0.05]

Pre-flop: (2.4 SB, 8 players) Hero is SB
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, CO checks, 1 fold, Hero calls, BB checks
good odds pre for this trash

Flop: (6.0 SB, 6 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, CO checks
attempt c/r or wait for turn. in limped pots, i see players take shots on paired flops all the time.

Turn: (3.0 BB, 6 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, CO checks
whoops. try for c/r now. surely someone had that A. granted, i should have led flop because that A would likely call down here, and now he may fire on me making this pot even bigger.

River: (3.0 BB, 6 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, CO checks, Hero says "incredible"
final effort because no one calls now, but flush, A, bluff may fire and i beat all those. i have NEVER seen a pot with so many players check around all streets.

Final Pot: 3.0 BB
UTG+1 shows:
MP2 shows:
CO shows:
Hero shows:
BB shows:
UTG shows:

well, theres a first time for everything.

bottom line: THIS IS SO RETARDED. JUST BET OUT AND BUILD A POT, THEY WILL CALL AND TRAP THEMSELVES.

Hero wins 2.9 BB ( won +2.4 BB )
UTG+1 lost 0.5 BB
MP2 lost 0.5 BB
CO lost 0.5 BB
BB lost 0.5 BB
UTG lost 0.5 BB
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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DrivingDog
Old 08-17-2008, 12:27 AM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper
here is WHY you dont slowplay LHE games. i will explain my retarded thought process along the way...

attempt c/r or wait for turn. in limped pots, i see players take shots on paired flops all the time.
You just explained why you should lead the flop.
"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).
 
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Chopper
Old 08-17-2008, 12:44 AM #10 (permalink)  
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agreed, but with this many players to act behind me, i wanted to get two in instead of one. i dont think they raise a lead from me w/o the 9 (because they are the type that dont fold, but dont raise, either). but, i do think someone bluffs an A at it.

like i said, tho, this hand is super retarded. as of right now, i have forgotten all about it.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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epic
Old 08-17-2008, 05:25 AM #11 (permalink)  

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epic
My line of thinking was two-fold:

-by the turn, a weak draw or face cards aren't going to call a turn bet.
-if I let either of them catch anything, I'll make up the bet.

The problem specific to my hand (that I posted in the other thread) is that the board paired on the turn, so even the flush draw isn't going more than a bet or two on the river.

On your hand, you can expect a gutshot, overcards, or a 7x to AT LEAST call a flop bet. Then, checking the turn isn't ALWAYS bad against:

-Ax because now he doesn't necessarily believe you had a 9 and will call a river bet
-7x-same as above (and he'll probably go 2+ bets with you).

I guess, in SOME situations, a turn check with a strong hand can buy you an extra bet in the river similarly to the way a semi-bluff with a strong draw on the flop can buy you a free river. I don't buy into the concept that one should ALWAYS bet the turn rather than slowplaying
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bigspenda73
Old 08-17-2008, 06:23 AM #12 (permalink)  
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 I always approached limit the way I did the Street Fighter 2 arcade game.

I slammed the buttons as hard and fast as I could and hoped it was good enough to win. Hell, worked all the way up to 5/10 post-Frist.
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epic
Old 08-17-2008, 05:22 PM #13 (permalink)  

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epic
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
I always approached limit the way I did the Street Fighter 2 arcade game.

I slammed the buttons as hard and fast as I could and hoped it was good enough to win. Hell, worked all the way up to 5/10 post-Frist.
I put so many quarters into various SF2 machines across town. My life changed when I learned to throw a hadoken with Ryu.
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