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Do you guys make alot more $/hr at B&M than online?

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AidanN20

11-11-2005, 07:37 AM Post subject: Do you guys make alot more $/hr at B&M than online?

#1 (permalink)

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Im going to be playing a good 30-40 hrs a week over the next couple months due to my college schedule.

I consider myself very good at limit and have plugged most of the leaks and really playing a solid game.

My local casino is packed full of HORRIBLE players...average 60-70% to the flop if not sometimes higher. Ive never seen a player I can consider good there playing 3-6 or even 6/12......fishy fishy.. I usually walk out with a good $100-200 night a majority of the nights ive been down there.
Oh yea theres a badbeat jackpot thats usually over 10k for aces full beat by four of kind..i figure if im down there long enough ill end up in it

Online, i dont usually have nearly a huge profit night. Ive yet to ever play as loose or with as bad of players...i make a reasonable amount of money on a solid consistant basis..I dont enjoy it nearly as much. I can multi table but commonly youll find a table full of TAggy players and occasionally lose pretty good and have some downswings...

What do you guys think? single/slow table of fish...best tables you can ask for not getting nearly as many hands or online multi table and get 8 times as much poker in?

I only wanna make about $1500 a month..i dont need much as ive got a decent sized bankroll

Dont F' with me, I can grind it out like a bot

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DaNutsInYoEye

11-11-2005, 07:55 AM

#2 (permalink)

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Good luck beating the rake at 3/6 for an appreciable sum over the long haul. I'm not saying you can't make money, but you're going to be fighting a constant uphill battle against the rediculous rake at that level. I wouldn't play anything less than 6/12 if you seriously want to make a decent income, but even at 6/12 the rake is pretty bad.

Good luck profiting on the Bad Beat Jackpot too. If you tracked how much you lost due to the constant drop to feed it as oppossed to how much you'd gain if it hit at your table, you'll find out that it is almost always -EV.

TheXianti: (Triptanes) why are you not a thinking person?

pokerfanatic

11-11-2005, 03:51 PM

#3 (permalink)

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Given the rake is larger at b&M, the hands come slower, can only be one place at one time.... you're looking at maybe 40 hands per hour with a great dealer and a decently paced table...

Online you can 1-10 table at party poker alone, about 60 hands per table per hour, rake is smaller, players are just as bad. So, say you 8 table that's 480 hands about an hour, say you have a 2bb/100 (making this up) you would be looking at about $57.6/hr (i think 480/100 = 4.8 so 4.8*2 = 9.6 9.6*6 = hourly rate? correct me if that's wrong i havn't done much math lately), where to mactch this hourly rate at a B&M over 40 hands an hour (40/100 = 0.4 so 0.4*x = 9.6 to get 9.6*6 = $57.6, so 9.6/0.4 = x, x = 24

)

i'm not sure i did that right, 24 sounds off...

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elipsesjeff

11-11-2005, 04:25 PM

#4 (permalink)

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online by FAR

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pokerfanatic

11-11-2005, 05:05 PM

#5 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by elipsesjeff

online by FAR

This is what I was trying to prove mathematically...

pokerlearner

11-11-2005, 06:52 PM

#6 (permalink)

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i am no expert and my post is not to counter any arguments but just state MY PERSONAL experience.

I started playing poker at party 0.5-1 and then moved up to 1-2. My experience at party was a CONSTANT UPHILL battle. I would win big and then give it back win again and give it back. after like 25000 hands my profit was just over 1.3 bb /100 hands.

Now compare that to B&M scenario. I started playing 2-4, played it for 5 months and then got tired of the rake and 1 month back moved up to 4-8. Players are SHIT, chase too far, call too much. I value bet the whole way. FTR taught me to keep betting unless you meet resistance...

. I am winning a LOT MORE at B&M compared to online. (I used to 3 table party 1-2)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is the bottomline.

1) You can play a lot more hands online compared to live
2) Players are LOT WORSE live than online.
3) Players are lot more Loose Passive live than online. that means that you can chase your draws, manipulate size of the pots lot more effectively on live than online.
4) Majority of players dont raise much preflop in live games (at least in my casino at 4-8 level) and if you can play well postflop you can play more hands than regular TAGGY game and kill it.

but as pokerfanatic has shown by maths, maybe online is better. but I dont play online any more after finding the local B&M.

my 2 cents

elipsesjeff

11-11-2005, 06:59 PM

#7 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerlearner

you cant compare 1/2 online to 4/8 live. Thats like saying I make a lot more playing 50/100 live than I would playing 5/10 6 max online.

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pokerlearner

11-11-2005, 08:57 PM

#8 (permalink)

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Jeff, thanks for pointing out my error in reasoning. that was pretty bad logic i accept.

after converting the winnings to 1-2 terms my B&M winnings doesnt seem that high. But my win rate is still a lot better in B&M than online (but that could be effect or rake) But still I must say that compared to B&M, online players play a lot more aggressive and better. Maybe my line of reasoning is wrong on some place, i am not sure.

all I am saying is that I feel that I have bigger edge against live players at our B&M casinos than the online players (maybe my table selection in party sucked !!).

also, you can play higher stakes (and thus lower rake effect) on B&M than online. and really do I wanna be playing 2-4, 3-6 online (where some of these really awesome players of FTR play). They would eat, chew and spit me out so fast I wouldnt know what hit me...

i would stick to the fishies of the B&M LOL

elipsesjeff

11-11-2005, 09:18 PM

#9 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerlearner

also, you can play higher stakes (and thus lower rake effect) on B&M than online. and really do I wanna be playing 2-4, 3-6 online (where some of these really awesome players of FTR play). They would eat, chew and spit me out so fast I wouldnt know what hit me...

1) Bankroll requirements stay the same, if not require MORE for B&M play b/c of the swingy play. Thus, levels playable online = levels playable in the casino, except, you can play more hands and win more per hour.

2) 2/4 and 3/6 online are not that difficult if you use table selection effectively. Even if you dont, the chances of running into one of us is rather small.

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pokerfanatic

11-11-2005, 09:21 PM

#10 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by elipsesjeff

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerlearner

and it's damn obvous when you do run into a player like Jeff...

joshuadzl

11-11-2005, 09:24 PM

#11 (permalink)

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Online: 50 to 70 hands an hour per table.
Casino: 40 if you're lucky.

You want to make more? There is your answer.

joshuadzl

11-11-2005, 09:27 PM

#12 (permalink)

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Also, if you're bad at online, don't play online. I was horrible online and it cost me some cash until I learned how to read players and get the game down. It is completely different. I won't touch online limit, but the NL is where I love online. Oh, and obviously the tournaments.

pokerfanatic

11-11-2005, 09:31 PM

#13 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by dzl

Online limit is just as easy as live... it’s actually a common misconception to think it's not... only difference is you can't see people’s faces but you can sure read the board and betting the same...

KoRnholio

11-11-2005, 09:34 PM

#14 (permalink)

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I've never played NL in a casino, but I'd think that there would be a bigger advantage playing NL live rather than online. Specifically people's tells. I'd suspect that people are less likely to bluff live than they are online, since they'd worry about it being detected.

Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.

Fnord

11-11-2005, 10:08 PM

#15 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by elipsesjeff

This depends on your edge. There are a select few online middle limit players with a really sick edge in the games they play in.

I play online because I'm used to the game textures, tend to be anti-social and am easily bored. Also, the best guy at a good live 10/20 table probably has a lower hourly expectation than I have 4 tabling 2/4.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Fnord

11-11-2005, 10:09 PM

#16 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerfanatic

The game textures are *very* different. Some of my favorite plays are far less effective in a live game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

joshuadzl

11-11-2005, 11:34 PM

#17 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerfanatic

Quote:

Originally Posted by dzl

Some people just can't play online poker. May be it focus or pure boredom. That was the only point to my post.

Kessler

11-11-2005, 11:39 PM

#18 (permalink)

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Location: Las Vegas

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Hands per hour in a B&M are barely 40 per. That's a super-fast dealer, and more importantly, super fast players. Not all dealers care to be fast, and even if they do, they are usually held up by the players. People talking to each other, spacing off watching the TV, etc. slow down the action, then when action comes to them, they go "Huh? What? Oh, yeah." Look at their hole cards, look at the board, repeat 1 or 2x, then act.

20-25 per hour with a decent table, and maybe 32-25 per hour at a great table with a dealer that cares. It seems that the lower the limit, the slower the game. 2-4 live crawls, but 10-20 live goes pretty quick because usually the more advanced players already KNOW their action before it comes to them.

-Kessler

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AidanN20

11-12-2005, 08:35 PM

#19 (permalink)

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Well....i swore that i could make more money at B&M live because the players were so bad, and it seems everytime I go down there, i just tear up one table after another...making a nice $100-200 night at 3/6...

buuutttttt I think im going to play a few thousand hands online at 2/4 on Party and have Fnord do some coaching service for me

Maybe i just need to close those last few big leaks and knock out some online time.

I appreciate all the replies..that REALLY made me reconsider what I thought was a solid plan. Do you guys have any advice on table selection. I think Ive never done anything but look at the Players to the flop % and then sit at the highest ones.

Anything to look for once you sit down? I usually look for how many players to the flop..do you guys start playing at the table right away or sit out a few rounds and look at how the play is going?

pokerfanatic

11-12-2005, 08:59 PM

#20 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by AidanN20

I used to be a deal and probably got off 30 hands an hour but that was in a NL game and me making sure people knew the action was on them, i didn't let them day dream... i made all my money of tips so the more hands i could chuck out pur hour the bettor...

Trikflow77

11-12-2005, 09:13 PM

#21 (permalink)

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You would be hard pressed to make 6 dollars an hour playing live 3/6 over the long run. I suspect you are running a little hot at the moment.

KoRnholio

11-12-2005, 10:08 PM

#22 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Trikflow77

You would be hard pressed to make 6 dollars an hour playing live 3/6 over the long run. I suspect you are running a little hot at the moment.

Depends when you play. If you're going during the day, that's probably true. At night and especially on weekends the donkies come out with big wads of bills.

I was playing a 3/6 kill game last night at a casino and there was the most donktastic woman at my table. I flop the nut flush (board A39 all clubs), she bets, I call. Turn 7 offsuit, she bets, I raise, she calls. River is an offsuit 8 she leads out, I raise, she re-raises, I re-raise and she finally calls. All she had was A8 without even a single club.

Her next donk play was on an AKQJ board where her and an old guy obviously each had a ten for the straight, with a young guy cold calling in between them. River paired the board and the young guy leads out, old guy sighs and calls then this woman raises opening the action back up to the young guy who filled his boat. Then she says "but I have a broadway", probably thinking that it beat a fullhouse..

But I digress. The calibre of players in casinos can be far far below what you'll find online. The looseness and passivity is just unreal, which just makes the bad players win less when ahead and more when behind.

Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.

Fnord

11-13-2005, 10:18 AM

#23 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Trikflow77

You would be hard pressed to make 6 dollars an hour playing live 3/6 over the long run. I suspect you are running a little hot at the moment.

You certainly would be hard pressed to make more than $12 an hour even under ideal conditions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Trikflow77

11-13-2005, 12:35 PM

#24 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trikflow77

You would be hard pressed to make 6 dollars an hour playing live 3/6 over the long run. I suspect you are running a little hot at the moment.

You certainly would be hard pressed to make more than $12 an hour even under ideal conditions.

yea, and that is expert play, i was talking about solid abc limit holdem.

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