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StinkyBeaver
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06-15-2005, 06:39 PM
Post subject: Do you call down here.
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Denmark
Posts: 275
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Preflop: I think it is ok to raise KQ UTG
On the flop I really didn't like to get a 3-bet.
on turn I serioulsy wanted to fold, but decided to call down.
Any thoughts on this.
Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 max, 8 handed) converter
Preflop: Hero is UTG with K , Q .
[color:#CC3333]Hero raises[/color], [color:#666666]2 folds[/color], MP2 calls, [color:#666666]2 folds[/color], [color:#CC3333]SB 3-bets[/color], [color:#666666]1 fold[/color], Hero calls, MP2 calls.
Flop: (10 SB) 7, K , 5 [color:#0000FF](3 players)[/color]
[color:#CC3333]SB bets[/color], [color:#CC3333]Hero raises[/color], MP2 calls, [color:#CC3333]SB 3-bets[/color], Hero calls, MP2 calls.
Turn: (9.50 BB) 3 [color:#0000FF](3 players)[/color]
[color:#CC3333]SB bets[/color], Hero calls, MP2 folds.
River: (11.50 BB) 8 [color:#0000FF](2 players)[/color]
[color:#CC3333]SB bets[/color], Hero calls.
Final Pot: 13.50 BB
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Nehmer
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Decatur, IL
Posts: 666
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I cap the flop. If he fires out again on the turn, then I call down. If he checks the turn, I bet/call. I don't see myself folding this hand unless I have a VERY good read on my opponent. The type of read I am pretty much incapable of making 
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StinkyBeaver
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Denmark
Posts: 275
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I think capping the flop is too agressive. we are still having Mp2 hanging inthere. And he did coldcall my initail bet.
Also tell me which hand you would 3-bet agains an utg raise and one coldcall..?
At best he's having some medium pocket however quite often I think He'll show you a monster.
I ao much wanted to fold to that 3-bet on the turn.
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ChezJ
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 1,456
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i think it's pretty clear you are beaten when he 3bets you on the flop.
call and pray for a Q on the turn, then fold when you miss.
ChezJ
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ChezJ
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Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 1,456
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yeah a medium pocket pair like 77 is a real possibility. maybe a Q on the turn would actually be bad for you because it would force you to keep calling and lose to a set.
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StinkyBeaver
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Denmark
Posts: 275
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I should probably start believing my own reading skills more instead of just going in calldown mode.
I was certain this guy had me beat
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Room
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 197
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Reads on the SB would be nice.
Remember, he is 3-betting OOP preflop. If hes a fairly standard player, he's got a good hand. I like your line, but I don't like MP2's CC on the flop. Not sure what hes calling w/ but it puts you in a bad spot on the turn.
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Gatlin Dan
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Flush
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Wild Bill's Backyard
Posts: 504
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Quote:
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Preflop: I think it is ok to raise KQ UTG
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I don't like this at all. You have to have a very strong hand to raise under the gun at a full table. KQo, is not IMO in this category. You are going to be forcing out hands that you can beat and getting called by ones that have you beaten.
I want to make sure that the players who have position on me call me with hands that are likely to be worse than mine when I raise from up front. Put yourself in their shoes. Are you going to call a UTG raise with a hand weaker than KQo? If they are any good, they won't either.
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pokerfanatic
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: 6max limit tables
Posts: 1,968
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fold it on the flop or turn...
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“Dream as if you’ll live forever. Live as if you’ll die today.” ~ James Dean ~
"Poker is a lot like sex, peoples perceived ability usually blinds the truth" ~ me ~
"God bless him. Got to bet big to win big! GAMB00L!!!" ~ Fnord
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StinkyBeaver
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Denmark
Posts: 275
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gatlin Dan
Quote:
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Preflop: I think it is ok to raise KQ UTG
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I don't like this at all. You have to have a very strong hand to raise under the gun at a full table. KQo, is not IMO in this category. You are going to be forcing out hands that you can beat and getting called by ones that have you beaten.
I want to make sure that the players who have position on me call me with hands that are likely to be worse than mine when I raise from up front. Put yourself in their shoes. Are you going to call a UTG raise with a hand weaker than KQo? If they are any good, they won't either. |
Maybe I'm a bit to aggressive. Anyways don't you raise AJoff either.?
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Room
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 197
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pokerfanatic01
fold it on the flop or turn...
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That's pretty tight. There are so many over aggressive players out there, I don't see how you can find a fold with TP2K against an unknown on this board. What is your reasoning for a flop or turn fold?
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StinkyBeaver
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Denmark
Posts: 275
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He's reason is the same as mine.
As mentioned I was very close to make a fold on turn b/c I didn't improve.
Reasons for a fold could be:
1: What range of hands does SB 3-bet wiht against an UTG raise with one coldcaller..? (could be TT, JJ, QQ, KK, AA or AK and AKs)
2: Since I only beat TT, JJ or QQ It might be right to fold to a flop 3-bet.
3: He's very aggresive both on flop and turn even though MP2 keeps calling
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TylerK
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME
Posts: 1,791
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gatlin Dan
Quote:
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Preflop: I think it is ok to raise KQ UTG
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I don't like this at all. You have to have a very strong hand to raise under the gun at a full table. KQo, is not IMO in this category. You are going to be forcing out hands that you can beat and getting called by ones that have you beaten. |
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...=&fpart=1&vc=1
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TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol
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Gatlin Dan
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Flush
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Wild Bill's Backyard
Posts: 504
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I went back through my PT database and looked at hands KQo and AJo played from UTG. After replaying them I have noticed an alarming trend. I limp in with these hands, hit the flop, and someone who I have dominated and let in cheap because I didn't raise, pairs their kicker on the turn or river.
After further study, I think it is better to raise UTG with a hand like this and make anyone who wants to play their K or A with a weak kicker call two cold. I stand corrected and will begin raising these from UTG.
The 2+2 link was a little over the top, but it did make me curious enough to open up the database and really take a look at it.
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Phyl
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Flush
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 396
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gatlin Dan
The 2+2 link was a little over the top, but it did make me curious enough to open up the database and really take a look at it.
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Haha, that link is awesome. It's kind of an inside joke, wont get it unless you read the forums frequently.
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