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Do i need more gamble in me ?
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pokerlearner
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08-03-2006, 06:08 PM
Post subject: Do i need more gamble in me ?
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: california
Posts: 366
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I play a very TAGGY game Live (I exclusively play live). Due to live nature of the game sometime boredom comes and I might limp some suited connectors and gappers out of position but my cold calling standards are very high.
Scene: $6-$12 B&M
Yesterday we had a total LAGG-Maniac 2 seats to my left. He was blind raising, 3 betting with nothing (not even a flush draw), raising on the river with nothing...and got lucky a few times and built 4 racks but then started donating it heavily and down to rack and a half.
Hand 1: Kill Pot $12-$24
Hero is in SB with Js-9s
Villain blind raises (without seeing his cards) in UTG, everyone folds to Hero folds
is it worth a call here against a blind raise of villain . how would i have played it if the flop missed me completely after i call (if i call)?
Hand 2: Hero limps K-10 offsuit from MP3 after MP1 limps.
Villain on Button raises, MP1 calls, Hero calls.
Flop: K-5-6
Hero checks, villain bets, Mp1 folds, Hero calls.
Turn: K-5-6-8
Hero checks, villain bets, Hero raises, Villain 3 bets, Hero ??
Hand 3: Hero open raises AJo from the button, SB calls, Villain in BB 3 bets, Hero calls, SB calls.
Flop: Q-Q-6
Sb bets, Villain Raises, Hero folds. (obviously sb knows villains tricks so maybe he is betting so villain raises and i am pushed out ?? should i still fold ??)
Turn: Q-Q-6-8
SB checks, Villain bets, SB calls
River: Q-Q-6-8-9
SB checks, Villains bets, SB calls and wins with A-4o !!
basically what i am trying to ask is should against such a laggy maniac I should stick around till the river HU and just hope my better card holds up against his cards. or just start with a pair or try to pair up on the flop, checkraise on the turn and bet/call on the river is a better line.
I feel i give up too easily before the flop against such maniac raisers...Again maybe i am being results oriented and just because i would have won all the hands above is making me think irrationally !!
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
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The best way to play against maniacs is to let them do the betting for you, and never fold a hand that could possibly win at showdown.
Hand 1: Good fold.
Hand 2: I call down
Hand 3: Good fold.
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pokerlearner
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: california
Posts: 366
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oh one very important question.
Is it better to
1) Try a seat change to have position on the villain so that i dont limp into raised bloatd pots (because once people get fed up of the villain they might start 3 betting and i might end up in a bloated pot with marginal offsuit cards by calling 1 extra raise each time and getting squeezed!!)
OR
2) Just stay to his immediate right so that when he bets I get full value of my sets, flush draws etc because now i can check raise an entire field on the turn 
I have always read that you should get position on these maniacs but sometimes i like the option 2 better. Is my thinking flawed here somehow ?
Question 2: Should my cold calling standard stay the same if i am to the left of such maniac. If maniac's range is so wide and his raises mean nothing, then do my AJo, KJo, K-10s, QJs, Q-10s become callable (i dont call these cards to raises, and still wouldnt call QJo, K10o, Q-10o regardless of raising standards of the raiser).
Thanks for your opinion Jeff. Sometimes I feel stupid asking these elementary questions now that I am playing as high as 9-18 and should be second nature to me....I self doubt too much
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Ltrain
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 514
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Hand 1- ok to fold, marginal call. If you call, hit a J,9, or draw, let him bet it down with a pair, checkraise a hit draw, laugh when he bets away his chips or he 3 bets your hit straight or flush with crap.
Hand 2- Fold preflop. Don't go to war with K,10o or other offsuit broadway against a maniac that has position on you.
Hand 3- nice board for Ace high. Raise to drive out SB, call down. If SB calls and maniac re-raises, fold.
I like Maniacs on my right so I can isolate them at any point I choose. When they are behind you, they are much tougher to play. Instead, use them to drive out other players and then call them down (ex. you hit MPGK on flop. bet, villian raises to drive out others including possibly a TP hand, and then you call down. If someone calls the two cold, you are either beaten or against a draw).
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"Don't judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes. Then you are a mile away, and have his shoes." - Anon.
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pokerlearner
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: california
Posts: 366
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thanks for your analysis LTrain. How about changing my cold calling standards when villain blind raises or raises anything and everything and you are to his left ??
In my second post:
"Should my cold calling standard stay the same if i am to the left of such maniac. If maniac's range is so wide and his raises mean nothing, then do my AJo, KJo, K-10s, QJs, Q-10s become callable (i dont call these cards to raises, and still wouldnt call QJo, K10o, Q-10o regardless of raising standards of the raiser). "
any thoughts on that ??
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ltrain
Hand 1- ok to fold, marginal call. If you call, hit a J,9, or draw, let him bet it down with a pair, checkraise a hit draw, laugh when he bets away his chips or he 3 bets your hit straight or flush with crap.
Hand 2- Fold preflop. Don't go to war with K,10o or other offsuit broadway against a maniac that has position on you.
Hand 3- nice board for Ace high. Raise to drive out SB, call down. If SB calls and maniac re-raises, fold.
I like Maniacs on my right so I can isolate them at any point I choose. When they are behind you, they are much tougher to play. Instead, use them to drive out other players and then call them down (ex. you hit MPGK on flop. bet, villian raises to drive out others including possibly a TP hand, and then you call down. If someone calls the two cold, you are either beaten or against a draw).
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I disagree with all three of the way you played your hands.
Hand 1: You shouldnt be calling UTG raises with anything from the SB, no matter who your opponent is, especially since its a kill pot.
Hand 2: Continuation limping isnt that horrible, I'd much rather raise to isolate. If maniac 3 bets then let him do the betting and knock everyone else out.
Hand 3: Facing a bet and a raise, you do not have odds to call and a 3bet here would just be spewing. You've invested very little in this pot and you should just give it up.
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Ltrain
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 514
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ltrain
Hand 1- ok to fold, marginal call. If you call, hit a J,9, or draw, let him bet it down with a pair, checkraise a hit draw, laugh when he bets away his chips or he 3 bets your hit straight or flush with crap.
Hand 2- Fold preflop. Don't go to war with K,10o or other offsuit broadway against a maniac that has position on you.
Hand 3- nice board for Ace high. Raise to drive out SB, call down. If SB calls and maniac re-raises, fold.
I like Maniacs on my right so I can isolate them at any point I choose. When they are behind you, they are much tougher to play. Instead, use them to drive out other players and then call them down (ex. you hit MPGK on flop. bet, villian raises to drive out others including possibly a TP hand, and then you call down. If someone calls the two cold, you are either beaten or against a draw).
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I disagree with all three of the way you played your hands.
Hand 1: You shouldnt be calling UTG raises with anything from the SB, no matter who your opponent is, especially since its a kill pot.
Hand 2: Continuation limping isnt that horrible, I'd much rather raise to isolate. If maniac 3 bets then let him do the betting and knock everyone else out.
Hand 3: Facing a bet and a raise, you do not have odds to call and a 3bet here would just be spewing. You've invested very little in this pot and you should just give it up.
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Hand 1- thought villian was stealing not UTG, yes a fold.
Hand 2- read from post is he raises/re-raises with any two. After a limper, I don't want to get caught in between when I am looking at TPGK in almost every case so I fold preflop and look for better opportunities.
Hand 3- read this too quickly as SB checking flop not betting. Yes, fold. the flop.
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"Don't judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes. Then you are a mile away, and have his shoes." - Anon.
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Ltrain
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 514
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pokerlearner
thanks for your analysis LTrain. How about changing my cold calling standards when villain blind raises or raises anything and everything and you are to his left ??
In my second post:
"Should my cold calling standard stay the same if i am to the left of such maniac. If maniac's range is so wide and his raises mean nothing, then do my AJo, KJo, K-10s, QJs, Q-10s become callable (i dont call these cards to raises, and still wouldnt call QJo, K10o, Q-10o regardless of raising standards of the raiser). "
any thoughts on that ??
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Even though the maniac's raises don't mean much, I am not a big fan of cold calling him with a wider range because you are increasing the odds for callers behind you, and in post-flop play you will have a harder time manipulating the odds to drive the other players out. I would rather 3 bet him and face him heads up plus force the players behind you to define their hands at the cheaper streets. However, if there were many limpers and THEN villian raises, coldcalling suited broadway on down to maybe 9,8s and any non-premium pocket pair would be the proper play.
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"Don't judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes. Then you are a mile away, and have his shoes." - Anon.
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euphoricism
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pokerlearner
oh one very important question.
Is it better to
1) Try a seat change to have position on the villain so that i dont limp into raised bloatd pots (because once people get fed up of the villain they might start 3 betting and i might end up in a bloated pot with marginal offsuit cards by calling 1 extra raise each time and getting squeezed!!)
OR
2) Just stay to his immediate right so that when he bets I get full value of my sets, flush draws etc because now i can check raise an entire field on the turn
I have always read that you should get position on these maniacs but sometimes i like the option 2 better. Is my thinking flawed here somehow ?
Question 2: Should my cold calling standard stay the same if i am to the left of such maniac. If maniac's range is so wide and his raises mean nothing, then do my AJo, KJo, K-10s, QJs, Q-10s become callable (i dont call these cards to raises, and still wouldnt call QJo, K10o, Q-10o regardless of raising standards of the raiser).
Thanks for your opinion Jeff. Sometimes I feel stupid asking these elementary questions now that I am playing as high as 9-18 and should be second nature to me....I self doubt too much 
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Getting position on him is far more important. Getting heads up with bad players is the crux of making money at LHE. He's your golden egg. Isolate thin, outplay him postflop. Try and get heads up as often as possible. With position (aka, free cards), your edge is huge.
You don't hit sets and super-nut hands often enough to concern yourself with option 2. Yeah, c/r the field when you hold the nuts or near nuts is nice, but those come few and far between, and farther between live when the hands come slower. Definitely take position on him as much as possible.
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Xanadu
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Full House
Join Date: May 2005
Location: st. paul, MO
Posts: 966
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Depends on the table whether you want him to left or right. If his wild play is loosening up the table, or if the table is happy to call his crap to start with, having him on your left is worth far more money than on the right. On the other side, if the table is playing relatively tight, you want him on your right to iso-raise.
On the loose table, you use the maniac to manipulate the pot how you want, and make huge cash from this. You tighten up preflop, but still play good multi-way hands. Post flop, you bet when you want him to raise and face the field with 2 bets, and you check/raise when you want to build the pot. Think of how valuable a nut flush draw is on the flop 6 or 7 way when he bets, everyone calls then you raise!
Hand 1, J9s is 54% against a single random hand. If you think BB will fold, I think a 3-bet is very reasonable. The BB and your SB covers the rake, so you are a 54% favorite. His horrible postflop play should turn you a profit.
Hand 2, I don't really think preflop matters very much. Calling, folding, probably about the same. Once the third player is out on the flop, I'm raising, and then playing it however it should be played according to the maniac's postflop tendencies.
Hand 3, way too passive to me. cap preflop, 3-bet the flop. If SB folds, call down if you don't hit anything, and raise your ass off if you hit an A or J. If SB calls 2, be very careful.
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Xanadu
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Full House
Join Date: May 2005
Location: st. paul, MO
Posts: 966
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Another thing to add. Being OOP against a complete maniac is not such a bad thing as people say. The reason for this is information, which is the key value of position. You already have information ... the maniac is going to bet or raise almost always, especially HU. This is one of the keys to beating a maniac ... you have almost perfect information on his actions. Use that information. There will be a lot of variance, but if you know his range preflop and know when to call down, when to have a raise war, and when to just give it up, you will profit immensely.
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
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I can see the cap preflop more than I can see the 3 bet on the flop.
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pokerlearner
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: california
Posts: 366
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thanks for all your advice guys. will file it in memory for future reference.
Here is an interesting hand i wasnt involved in but will give you the idea of the GAMBOOL this guy had at the table.
a dealer (pretty decent player to my right) got her hand cracked by the villain last hand when he runner runnered a trips.
Next hand dealer raises, i fold, villain 3 bets, dealer caps, villain 5 bets, dealer 6 bets...( in our casino, if its HU, there is no limit ).
Maniac says..you wanna go all in. Dealer thinks and thinks and says..i dont know..i am running bad..all right i am all in. Maniac calls.
Maniac shows Ah-10h....Dealer shows K-K . Dealer wins a 1 and a half rack pot (1 rack = 200$)....sweet....
this is kind of villain i am talking about....
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