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Discussion: When raising will NOT protect your hand
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Ayodeji13
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02-13-2006, 07:28 PM
Post subject: Discussion: When raising will NOT protect your hand
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 35
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I know this is a rather fundamental topic, but i'm still having trouble understanding situations where I flop a strong hand (top 2, trips/set) that is weakened by a coordinated board and a multi-way pot...
Here is an example from today
PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx
Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with 4 , K. MP1 posts a blind of $0.25.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls, MP1 (poster) checks, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, 2 folds, SB completes, BB checks.
Flop: (7 SB) 4 , 4 , 5 (7 players)
SB bets, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, Hero raises, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, SB 3-bets, UTG+1 calls, Hero caps, MP3 calls, SB calls, UTG+1 calls.
Turn: (11.50 BB) 2 (4 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, MP3 calls, SB calls, UTG+1 calls.
River: (15.50 BB) J (4 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero checks, MP3 bets, SB calls, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls.
Final Pot: 18.50 BB
I understand that i probably have an equity edge against most hands except 63s/54/55/A4 ... but is my play correct? (note: I know I was playing hilo suited OOP preflop, but this was an extremely passive table based on my PT data and there was a poster outside the blinds)
I'm just confused on this because SSHE would classify this as a 'very strong' hand relative to the flop, but I know that my pot equity edge goes down as more people are in the hand. Still though, my hand is too strong not to raise/reraise for value.... thoughts?
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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First, fold preflop. Second, at a table this passive, my opinion is that since I am basically forced to gamble anyways (no one is folding) I may as well try to maximize in a profitable situation by simply betting every street. Checking and hoping to force folds on a big betting round by keeping the pot small is fruitless and just misses flop bets, so I just try to build the pot as much as I can with the best hand. If someone sucks out, oh well. I still made money probabilistically.
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silverfist
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 341
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Flush draws will never fold, never ever, so don't bother. Mainly you want to be protecting your hand from things like overcards plus gutshots or backdoors and hands like that people often call one bet on the flop with. You also want to raise to protect vulnerable outs. For instance, in the case of a flush draw with Axs, raising protects from other aces when you spike an ace.
On this hand, you really don't have anything to protect except the flush draw. Overpairs might spike a set, but they'll call anyway. The flush isn't going anywhere. If someone is unlucky enough to catch an ace or something, you'll win even more money. It's all good  . The only things that can beat you won't fold. Since you're probably way, way ahead here, just build up the pot.
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Xanadu
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Full House
Join Date: May 2005
Location: st. paul, MO
Posts: 966
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Fold preflop. No matter how passive your table is. Good hand to limp in late position with 3 or 4 already in, but UTG + 2 no way. You protect vulnerable hands. With trips with a great kicker on the flop, you aren't looking to protect your hand ... you are looking to value bet and get as many bets as possible from your opponents into the pot.
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