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pokerlearner
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12-01-2005, 05:16 PM
Post subject: did overplay my AKs here
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: california
Posts: 366
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Hero is Ac-Kc in SB.
No reads on UTG+1 . sat down at the table a few mins back.
Preflop: UTG+1 raises, everyone folds to Hero, Hero 3 bets, UTG+1 caps.
Flop: Ad-5d-Js
Hero bets, UtG+1 raises, Hero calls (intending to checkraise the turn).
Turn: Ad-5d-Js-2c
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero raises, UTG+1 3 bets, Hero calls.
River: Ad-5d-Js-2c-Jc
UTG+1 bets, hero calls
How did i do this hand ? can i drop it anywhere ? i felt i was good more often than not..
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Demiparadigm
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Party 6 max
Posts: 1,602
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looks good.
You're not behind much here.
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To win in poker you only need to be one step ahead of your opponents. Two steps may be detrimental.
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Ltrain
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 514
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I don't hate the line you took, but looking at the hand there isn't a whole lot you beat by calling this down after the turn 3 bet. The two times in this hand to slow down and think are after the flop raise and of course the turn 3 bet.
When you intended to checkraise, what range did you place on the villian? Did it change after the turn 3 bet? Did Villian give off any tells?
When Villian capped the flop, with no reads an average opponent will cap with A,A down to maybe 10,10, and A,K. After the flop, you beat only Q,Q; K,K and chop A,K (a flush draw maybe raises for the free card, but the preflop cap discounts this possibility). After the turn 3 bet, you are left with a high probability of A,A; J,J; longshot A,J; and an A,K chop.
In the heat of battle, I may end up playing it the same, but if I have my wits about me, I decide to call it down after the flop or checkraise with the intention of folding to a 3 bet on the turn.
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"Don't judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes. Then you are a mile away, and have his shoes." - Anon.
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Lidius
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 18
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no way its overplayed. Still I seem to get bit alot when I play this way and prefer to establish control on the flop. Im not not folding heads - up after the turn 3 bet I expect to see a better hand nothing else is getting that frisky after being checkraised.
edit nm im wrong. I didnt pay enough attention. I check call down the flop raise.
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ihategnomes
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 1,225
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With the cap preflop, I might just 3 bet the flop to see if he caps, if/when he does I probably calldown on the bigger streets, any reads?
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Field mice are fast, but owls can see in the dark.
<Bbickes> i still wanna know if the thing in your avatar is a real chick or not
<Bbickes> or am i e-crushing a dude
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pokerlearner
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: california
Posts: 366
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addition. it was a $4-$8 B&M game. after the turn 3 bet I put villain on AA (it could be JJ i know but i had a feeling he had AA).
My question is even though its highly likely villain has AA after the turn, calling down still correct. i am not 100% certain so he could still show me AK, AQ, KK (unlikely here).
my main question is about calling the river. its hard to fold AK after going that far 
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Ltrain
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 514
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pokerlearner
addition. it was a $4-$8 B&M game. after the turn 3 bet I put villain on AA (it could be JJ i know but i had a feeling he had AA).
My question is even though its highly likely villain has AA after the turn, calling down still correct. i am not 100% certain so he could still show me AK, AQ, KK (unlikely here).
my main question is about calling the river. its hard to fold AK after going that far |
I think the better question for the river is, after first analyzing what range of hands are you up against, what % of the time could you be ahead, and then determining your pot odds for the final river call. In other words, it's not that you have TPTK, its what % of time you are still ahead and do you have odds to test that %. For your call on the river, you are getting about 19:1 odds and only have to be ahead about 5% of the time to make the call.
For the river, you make the crying call with those odds.
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"Don't judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes. Then you are a mile away, and have his shoes." - Anon.
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ihategnomes
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 1,225
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Yeah onces your to the river there, you pretty much have to call. Folding for one bet would be ugly.
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Field mice are fast, but owls can see in the dark.
<Bbickes> i still wanna know if the thing in your avatar is a real chick or not
<Bbickes> or am i e-crushing a dude
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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I 3-bet the flop to prevent KK/QQ from checking behind on the turn for a cheap showdown.
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Kessler
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 117
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Would KK/QQ Raise an Axx flop with a bet in front? Especially with a pre-flop cap? I'm thinking not. Either AA or 2 KQdiamonds warrants a raise on that flop, IMHO. - The Turn 3-bet reinforces AA too.
-Kessler
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If you can't be kind, at least have the decency to be vague.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Kessler
Would KK/QQ Raise an Axx flop with a bet in front?
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Yes
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pokerlearner
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: california
Posts: 366
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Kessler, I wish i had your wits at the table  . the villain had AA.
but my consolation is that at least i lost to a hand where i was 6:1 underdog (or something of that kind of odds)
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pokerlearner
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: california
Posts: 366
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" Would KK/QQ Raise an Axx flop with a bet in front?"
ABSOLULTELY. at least at the b&m tables i play. They wont lay down KK-QQ and they want to get to showdown as cheaply as possible. one way to do that is raise the flop, check the turn and call the river.
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Lidius
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 18
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What about checking the turn and try to checkraise the river?
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