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did I play this too aggressively?

  
 
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Nehmer
Old 04-09-2005, 05:37 PM     Post subject: did I play this too aggressively? #1 (permalink)  
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MP2 is a standard Party 3/6 tight aggressive(about 15 VPIP, 8 PFR). I haven't played many hands with UTG+2, but so far he has seen quite a few flops and been very aggressive.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A, Q.
1 fold, Hero raises, UTG+2 calls, 1 fold, MP2 3-bets, 5 folds, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls.

Flop: (10.33 SB) 9, Q, 2 (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG+2 calls, MP2 raises, Hero 3-bets, UTG+2 calls, MP2 caps, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls.

Turn: (11.16 BB) Q (3 players)
[color:#CC3333]Hero bets[/color], UTG+2 raises, MP2 folds, Hero 3-bets, UTG+2 caps, Hero calls.

River: (19.16 BB) 4 (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG+2 raises, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 23.16 BB
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Fnord
Old 04-09-2005, 05:44 PM #2 (permalink)  
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The only interesing decision is if you should call or 3-bet the river. Given the read, I'm capping.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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aleksandr
Old 04-09-2005, 05:50 PM #3 (permalink)  
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You had the 3 of a kind, and then the nut flush, I'd 3-bet it at least on the river.
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Nehmer
Old 04-09-2005, 06:03 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
The only interesing decision is if you should call or 3-bet the river. Given the read, I'm capping.
So you aren't scared at all by the fact that UTG+2 calls a capped flop and then suddenly comes out raising on the turn? I always assume when somebody does something like that it means they have a powerhouse hand.
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pokerfanatic
Old 04-09-2005, 09:18 PM #5 (permalink)  
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I don't think he had the boat if that's what you're asking he didn't raise the pot until 4th street when the other Q hit and you have one what's the odds of him having the case Q? would he call like that with a pp of 2s or 9s? What is your read on this player? Loose, Tight what?

I would have 3 bet the river thinking I had the best hand at that point, if he has the boat I’d end up paying it off...
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Trikflow77
Old 04-09-2005, 10:27 PM #6 (permalink)  
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edit, I thought this was .5/1, its close but if he is solid, I would call the river.
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Fnord
Old 04-09-2005, 10:27 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Will anyone argue this decision isn't close and would have a long term impact on your win rate?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Trikflow77
Old 04-09-2005, 10:51 PM #8 (permalink)  
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I am an aggressive river player, but how I aggressive I play a river is dependent on many factors

1. Turn action.....This is the biggest factor
2. Player.....if hes weak and will call a raise with a weak hand I'll do it
3. Board texture with river card. Does this make any draws, or likely two pair hands?
4. # of players in the hand... Overcallers make me slow way down
5. Postion reletive to the bettor

I think that playing marginal situtations well as much more impact on win rate than playing big hands.
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pokerfanatic
Old 04-10-2005, 05:29 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Will anyone argue this decision isn't close and would have a long term impact on your win rate?
I wont because I think it's not a close decision at all and it wont impact your win rate to badly unless you continue to play the hand too passive when you should be capping, you loose those potential bets that you would have and should have won...
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Nehmer
Old 04-10-2005, 05:36 PM #10 (permalink)  
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I must say I am kind of shocked that nobody else is really giving this guy credit as having a boat. He did in fact have pocket 2s and took the pot down. So, if this guys play didn't scream flopped set at you, what signs do you look for in trying to figure out if somebody hit a set? Just seems kind of wierd that my read of this situation is so obviously different from everybody elses.
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Rondavu
Old 04-11-2005, 02:22 PM #11 (permalink)  
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I agree with you Nehmer, and not because I already know he had a boat. This to me was a clear cut read. Not only did the board pair up, but you had that card! He recaps you after the second one shows! There are a thousand and one signs this is a set to a boat. All you have to do is think about what he could be holding for a split second. Since you have practically everything in your hand it stands to reason it doesn't involve a queen or a club. It has something to do with that 9 or 2. I've rarely seen a more exposed boat given the cards in your hand and how they contracted the equation.

On the flop cap you think maybe he has two pair. When the second queen hit and he didn't slow down the sirens go off. It's boat-alicious. It's recklessly aggressive to not believe it. I don't pay this off. I think you made the right move.

I think it was stated earlier that it's unlikely he had the other Q. That can only mean boat. sometimes it does occur however, that some aggressive fish is raising with 5 and 7 of clubs searching for the flush. I wouldn't bet on it though.
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Element187
Old 04-11-2005, 04:44 PM     Post subject: Re: did I play this too aggressively? #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nehmer
MP2 is a standard Party 3/6 tight aggressive(about 15 VPIP, 8 PFR).
you could give him credit for a strong hand.. just from this read alone.


with that read, i wouldnt cap the river, i would just call and show down.

if he was a crazy maniac player, i would cap it.
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Thinker
Old 04-11-2005, 05:35 PM #13 (permalink)  

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Well, the final result of the hand is really not relevant i think.
I would cap it, he had the full house, congratulations, more often then not i will be paid off, instead of paying off.
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