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Did I play "right" ?

  
 
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joslin
Old 03-22-2005, 01:25 PM     Post subject: Did I play "right" ? #1 (permalink)  

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joslin
I recently won this hand by limping in on the blind, on a limit 0.25€/0.5€ table.

Got pretty crappy cards but it turned out nice in the end. Everybody checked all the way to the river, so obviously noone had anything - right?. Noone even tried to steal the pot (should I have tried to?), although I must say that stealing a pot is not easy on a loose limit table like this, people call with anything, even reraise.

The thing is, I'm pretty confident when betting on a hand like AA suited or higher, but at the end of this hand you can see that I call HerrNilson - I suspect that I shouldve folded OR raised.

So, in retrospective, what should I have done in this situation ?

Players:
ErikG (EUR 12,50 in seat 1)
ao736t24 (EUR 29,00 in seat 2)
Sputti (EUR 13,25 in seat 3)
Woodii (EUR 7,50 in seat 4)
HerrNilson (EUR 33,00 in seat 5)
cerna (EUR 8,50 in seat 6)
joslin (EUR 3,75 in seat 7)
benzi (EUR 4,00 in seat 8)
frobban1 (EUR 16,50 in seat 9)
wbh (EUR 4,25 in seat 10)

Dealer: cerna
Small Blind: joslin (0,25)
Big Blind: benzi (0,25)

joslin was dealt: 7h - 8h

frobban1 Call (0,25)
wbh Fold
ErikG Call (0,25)
ao736t24 Fold
Sputti Fold
Woodii Call (0,25)
HerrNilson Call (0,25)
cerna Fold
joslin Check
benzi Check

Flop Th - 5h - 7c

joslin Check
benzi Check
frobban1 Check
ErikG Check
Woodii Check
HerrNilson Check

Turn Th - 5h - 7c - 3d

joslin Check
benzi Check
frobban1 Check
ErikG Check
Woodii Check
HerrNilson Check

River Th - 5h - 7c - 3d - Jh

joslin Bet (0,50)
benzi Fold
frobban1 Fold
ErikG Fold
Woodii Fold
HerrNilson Raise (1,00)
joslin Call (0,50)

HerrNilson shows: Jd - Ac (a pair of jacks)
joslin shows: 7h - 8h (a flush, jack high)

joslin wins: EUR 3,50 (with a flush, jack high)
20€, 39€, 40€, 34€, 27€, 40€, 46€, 66€, 61€, 51€, 52€, 61€, 22€, 14€
 
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joslin
Old 03-22-2005, 01:33 PM #2 (permalink)  

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joslin
and I'd like to add:
If anyone had put a bet on the flop (or turn) I wouldve folded - would that be the right thing to do ?
20€, 39€, 40€, 34€, 27€, 40€, 46€, 66€, 61€, 51€, 52€, 61€, 22€, 14€
 
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mcpeepants
Old 03-22-2005, 02:46 PM #3 (permalink)  
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If anybody bets the flop or the turn you should check your pot odds with the odds you are getting to call.

For example, there is 1.5 in the pot on the flop. If somebody bets .25 cents that makes the pot 1.75 where you would have to call a .25 cent bet, giving you pot odds of 1.75:0.25 or 7:1. You have 9 outs for the flush draw on the turn giving you an approximate 19% chance to get the flush on the turn, or 4:1 odds to call. Since 4:1 is better than 7:1 you should call.

I would suggest reraising the guy on the river. You are playing suited connectors to make the flushes and straights, there is no point in being timid about it when you get it. The odds of him having a higher flush are pretty low.
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joslin
Old 03-22-2005, 03:09 PM #4 (permalink)  

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joslin
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcpeepants
I would suggest reraising the guy on the river. You are playing suited connectors to make the flushes and straights, there is no point in being timid about it when you get it. The odds of him having a higher flush are pretty low.
Thanks - that is the answer I was looking for...

I wasn't sure how I should've done, but at least was pretty sure I didn't do the right thing.

Pot odds ?
- should I use the charts on this site, how am I suppose to use them fast enough...even have trouble counting my outs at speeds of 10s/hand...
Yes I know, experience, but any tricks to the trade ?
20€, 39€, 40€, 34€, 27€, 40€, 46€, 66€, 61€, 51€, 52€, 61€, 22€, 14€
 
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LeFou
Old 03-22-2005, 04:31 PM #5 (permalink)  
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This is a flop I'd bet every time. A pair and a flush draw? Get out the opps who are ONLY drawing. If you get raised, you look at odds, but it's rare that someone will raise you big enough to take away your odds.

Also note the flush 9 are not your only outs. There are 5 more for the eights and sevens in the deck.

At LEAST bet the turn. What gives? Looks like no one's got a ten.

Last point: is this a limit hand?
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joslin
Old 03-22-2005, 07:00 PM #6 (permalink)  

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joslin
Yes it is a limit hand...
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a500lbgorilla
Old 03-22-2005, 07:07 PM #7 (permalink)  
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{Moved from HHH}

We put these threads in the closet.. err.. Limit forum.

-'rilla

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
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Old 03-22-2005, 07:15 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Bet the flop, bet the turn in my opinion.
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strix
Old 03-22-2005, 07:40 PM #9 (permalink)  
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I think betting the flop rather than checking would have been the right move. You said yourself that people will call with anything.
Hail Eris! All Hail Discordia!
 
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Fnord
Old 03-22-2005, 08:02 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strix
I think betting the flop rather than checking would have been the right move. You said yourself that people will call with anything.
pwned
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Demiparadigm
Old 03-22-2005, 09:43 PM #11 (permalink)  
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You had
A) the best hand.
B) the best draw.
C) 7 players saw the flop.

Raise and bet every street.
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ChezJ
Old 03-22-2005, 10:02 PM #12 (permalink)  
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 bet the flop, bet the turn, bet and cap the river. seriously. you could have made 6x more money on this hand.

where is this cardroom where you have to post a full bet in the small blind? i would suggest finding a better cardroom before you are blinded to death.

ChezJ
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pokerfanatic
Old 03-23-2005, 03:11 AM #13 (permalink)  
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Bet the flop, bet the turn, bet the river, don't be scared to build a pot especially when you are dawning and have a pair, you have 9 flush outs and 4 cards that help your hand so you have 13outs (2.5:1), value bet these and build a pot up, at least I would have bet the flop, and the turn, then the river if I was raised on the river as you were I think I would have to call considering the pot was large enough (maybe 3 bet depending on the player?), and you have a chance that a LAGG is betting what he thinks is the best hand TPTK or something like that...

I know one thing I sure as hell would have bet the flop and turn, the river play, well someone else might be able to tell you bettor… If I’m wrong please correct me someone...
“Dream as if you’ll live forever. Live as if you’ll die today.” ~ James Dean ~

"Poker is a lot like sex, peoples perceived ability usually blinds the truth" ~ me ~

"God bless him. Got to bet big to win big! GAMB00L!!!" ~ Fnord
 
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Demiparadigm
Old 03-23-2005, 03:32 AM #14 (permalink)  
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Demiparadigm
IF you are behind you have 14 outs (9 hearts, 2 7s and 3 8s) Making you a favorite to win against a single player with a higher pair.
With 7 players who are apt to call with poor holdings It is important to bet with any reasonable draw, as you will make it enough times for it to be profitable. Any time you have a flush draw or open straight draw, and more than 2 opponents, you want to build the pot as much as possible. The pair just makes your hand stronger.
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joslin
Old 03-23-2005, 01:22 PM #15 (permalink)  

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joslin

Thanks everybody - I am sure that examining this hand and all posts will REALLY help my play.

Playing these kind of hands is really one of my weaknesses, I am sure that a lot of newbies have similar problems. The thing is, I have a hard time seeing all the outs, seeing that I am actually ahead and know that beeing confident while playing these hands will make me money.

But for now, I'll try to play it simple, play mostly really good hands (eg folding like 88 and below) and when I get comfortable play a little more complex stuff.
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Rondavu
Old 03-23-2005, 02:34 PM #16 (permalink)  
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I would bet like a madman on this hand. If bet to me I would raise it. You acted critically weak and lost yourself a lot of bets in the process. The thing about betting draws is that bad players (especially at this level) never put you on a draw. You don't want to be in a situation where you checked until a straight or flush board is showing, because people will fold when they see you come alive on it. Get your money in before your hand is made, and then when it gets made it's camouflaged. They won't believe you have it because you bet before it showed. Good players will pick up on this and charge you premium price for the draw, but most people aren't that observant. Read any book on limit hold-em and you'll see that should be hammering away at the pot on strong draws. Every single time.
It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
 
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