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LeFou
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08-10-2005, 06:51 PM
Post subject: Defensive check/call, check/raise
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 2,361
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Alright, I'm not winning nowadays so here's one that (maybe) causes me to lose less?
PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx
Preflop: Hero is SB with J , K .
3 folds, MP2 raises, 2 folds, Hero calls, 1 fold.
Flop: (5 SB) T, 8 , A (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets, Hero calls.
Turn: (3.50 BB) K (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets, Hero raises, MP2 calls.
River: (7.50 BB) 3 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 checks.
Final Pot: 7.50 BB
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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From the SB when facing a single raise I will often either 3-bet or fold.
Calling here is pretty bad.
Also, why check/raise the turn?
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LeFou
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 2,361
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Also, why check/raise the turn?
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If he was stealing, it's for value. If not, I get some perks
-if he's weak enough, he might lay down an ace there
-If not, he'll likely check behind with an ace and I lose less.
I've had decent luck with the C/C, C/R when I suspect a steal.
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JJDylan
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 211
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if i really suspect a steal here i'd 3-bet him preflop. Otherwise i think im folding the flop here.
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LeFou
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 2,361
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hm... I think one foot would suffice for me to count the number of times I've 3bet KJo preflop. Is this a leak?
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JJDylan
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 211
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by LeFou
hm... I think one foot would suffice for me to count the number of times I've 3bet KJo preflop. Is this a leak?
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again, ONLY if you're suspecting a steal....people will attempt steals with hands MUCH weaker than KJo, and if they have one of these hands they'll give up if you give them too much resistance preflop, im currently learning this the hard way :P
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pokerfanatic
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: 6max limit tables
Posts: 1,968
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PF I either fold or 3 bet... I hardly ever just call... on the flop I think sticking out a raise here it costs you less if your 3 bet then say you c/r on the turn... if he calls the c/r on the turn typically he's not folding one bet on the river plus if he 3 bets do you really think your hands good? Sure when you’re ahead it’s for value, but when you’re behind you loose two extra beats unless you muck to he’s 3 bet… However your raise on the flop tells him he has to play for at least 2 more big beats on the next to streets so he might be more apt to let go of a weaker hand more so on the flop... IMO, but folding or 3 betting sets you up for the rest the hand PF... Sometimes you take down pots by pure aggression only after you 3 bet and there is a couple big cards out...
My thoughts on blind defending is to figure where I am on the flop, especially if it’s HU, you save your self some beats on bigger rounds by gather information on the cheaper rounds when behind and gain beats when ahead… seems win win to me…
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“Dream as if you’ll live forever. Live as if you’ll die today.” ~ James Dean ~
"Poker is a lot like sex, peoples perceived ability usually blinds the truth" ~ me ~
"God bless him. Got to bet big to win big! GAMB00L!!!" ~ Fnord
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Gatlin Dan
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Flush
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Wild Bill's Backyard
Posts: 504
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by LeFou
hm... I think one foot would suffice for me to count the number of times I've 3bet KJo preflop. Is this a leak?
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I would 3-bet here if for no other reason than to get the BB to fold. I don't like KJo if it's not heads up, especially if I am first to act on every round of betting.
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"A lot of fortunes are made on what you don't play."--"Miami" John Cernuto
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TylerK
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME
Posts: 1,791
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He's raising from MP2 in an 8-handed game. How likely is this to be a pure steal?
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TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol
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A'aag
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Straight
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Loyal son of Rochester
Posts: 172
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by TylerK
He's raising from MP2 in an 8-handed game. How likely is this to be a pure steal?
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Without a specific read on this player I would fold PF. If I do think he's on a steal I would definitely raise. If I was in the BB i would call (sans read). If he had open limped and CO and Button had still passed, I would raise.
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LeFou
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 2,361
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by TylerK
He's raising from MP2 in an 8-handed game. How likely is this to be a pure steal?
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I don't think it has to be a pure steal; with 3 folds in front I'll sometimes stab at the with QJo, KJo ... basically lots of hands w/o an ace. I projected this tendency onto the opponent, and when i caught the king there seemed a good chance i was ahead.
Like I said, if he had one of those weak stealing hands, it's for value. If he had AT, AK, KT, I'd get 3bet and can lay down. He's not 3betting a little pp. If he has Ax, he'll check behind at the end, or even fold here if the x is weak enough.
I think.
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Gatlin Dan
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Flush
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Wild Bill's Backyard
Posts: 504
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[quote="LeFou"]
Quote:
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Originally Posted by TylerK
. He's not 3betting a little pp. If he has Ax, he'll check behind at the end, or even fold here if the x is weak enough.
I think.
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I think you may be giving your opponents too much credit.
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"A lot of fortunes are made on what you don't play."--"Miami" John Cernuto
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Demiparadigm
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Party 6 max
Posts: 1,602
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Fold preflop. I might 3 bet against an opponet wit ha tendency to steal, but i don't think KJo plays well against the range of hands the raiser could have, even from the HiJack. (I would call with KJs)
Fold on the flop. The pot is small, you have only a gutshot, and since most players will steal wit han ace, you aren't getting good odds to continue.
The turn is good.
Bet the river. You will get calls from a lot of hands worse than yours, and might even get him to fold, so you don't have to show what a donk you were earlier in the hand.
If you intend to call a bet on the end (which you should) It is usually better to bet yourself.
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To win in poker you only need to be one step ahead of your opponents. Two steps may be detrimental.
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