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Defending a blind steal

  
 
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chardrian
Old 05-04-2006, 09:30 PM     Post subject: Defending a blind steal #1 (permalink)  
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From the SB it seems to me the play is either raise or fold.

But from the BB is the best play a raise or is calling a better approach.

I have difficulties both ways. When I call for just one bet I have a tendency to check/fold when I miss the flop (so 2/3 of the time) and miss a lot of value against true steals. When I raise I tend to get sucked in to a showdown with marginal holdings because the pots are bigger and I don't wanna give em up.

Does PokerAces tell you your opp's blind steal rate? Cuz that would obviously help.
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Ltrain
Old 05-04-2006, 09:50 PM     Post subject: Re: Defending a blind steal #2 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chardrian
From the SB it seems to me the play is either raise or fold.

But from the BB is the best play a raise or is calling a better approach.

I have difficulties both ways. When I call for just one bet I have a tendency to check/fold when I miss the flop (so 2/3 of the time) and miss a lot of value against true steals. When I raise I tend to get sucked in to a showdown with marginal holdings because the pots are bigger and I don't wanna give em up.

Does PokerAces tell you your opp's blind steal rate? Cuz that would obviously help.
I used to 3bet preflop more often and will against a predictable TAG, but I am now calling more HU and looking to checkraise to slow down steals because you can bank on the c-bet coming and he won't know your strength until he has at least 3 SB in the pot.

Yes, you can set PAHUD to track steal percentages. Look into the Layout Manager and add steal percentage as a "visible" option.
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elipsesjeff
Old 05-04-2006, 09:59 PM     Post subject: Re: Defending a blind steal #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ltrain
but I am now calling more HU and looking to checkraise
The problem with this is that it is SO common that it is over used. I mean, everyone and their brother knows it, and if I catch anything (even an Ace high) I'm going to call it down.

Another common steal that many 30/20s are using now are the turn check/raises. If I have a pair I'm still calling it down and if I have ace high i've been checking the turn and autocalling the river bet.


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Ltrain
Old 05-05-2006, 02:16 PM     Post subject: Re: Defending a blind steal #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ltrain
but I am now calling more HU and looking to checkraise
The problem with this is that it is SO common that it is over used. I mean, everyone and their brother knows it, and if I catch anything (even an Ace high) I'm going to call it down.

Another common steal that many 30/20s are using now are the turn check/raises. If I have a pair I'm still calling it down and if I have ace high i've been checking the turn and autocalling the river bet.
Let me elaborate. I don't checkraise just because I am suspecting a steal, I will look to have top pair or a good draw to pull the trigger. Or, with TPNK or MPGK I usually just to call it down and let him hang himself; maybe donk the river. I will checkraise the turn about half the time with an overpair, TPTK, midpair if a scare card hits the turn, and most of the time with two pair or better.

To your point though, you are correct that HU, a checkraise does not seem to get as much respect these days. I am seeing flop checkraises getting 3bet alot, and turn checkraises called down more often.
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euphoricism
Old 05-05-2006, 08:02 PM #5 (permalink)  
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I rarely just call steal attempts. Although it does seem to throw a wrench in so many people -- "Wait, he's supposed to raise me back! Fuck! Whats he have?!" -- so much that it does indeed have its uses.

With TPNK or MPGK in a blind steal I tend to lead the flop, if he raises I check call, check call, donkbet river. If I flop TPTK+, I almost always reraise and lead it down. Too many people check through turns on blind steals for me to bother with trying to c/r.
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pokerfanatic
Old 05-05-2006, 09:49 PM     Post subject: Re: Defending a blind steal #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ltrain
but I am now calling more HU and looking to checkraise
The problem with this is that it is SO common that it is over used. I mean, everyone and their brother knows it, and if I catch anything (even an Ace high) I'm going to call it down.

Another common steal that many 30/20s are using now are the turn check/raises. If I have a pair I'm still calling it down and if I have ace high i've been checking the turn and autocalling the river bet.

you end up getting 3 bet a lot as you move up when you c/r the flop in that situation I guess... or you just get called down by anything...

really, I hate using that line unless I got a big hand and want to look week to a smart player... to a smart player this might mean you think he is on a steal and his PP or whatever he holds is ahead thus playing back at you... of course this gets into playing the player a little bit when you go there...


one thing i have noticed a lot of at 3/6 lately is players will call the fucking raise from the blinds then donk out at you with any piece at all... it really throws off the steal line, it's even stranger when a tagg does that line...
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Miffed22001
Old 05-06-2006, 03:09 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerfanatic
Quote:
Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ltrain
but I am now calling more HU and looking to checkraise
The problem with this is that it is SO common that it is over used. I mean, everyone and their brother knows it, and if I catch anything (even an Ace high) I'm going to call it down.

Another common steal that many 30/20s are using now are the turn check/raises. If I have a pair I'm still calling it down and if I have ace high i've been checking the turn and autocalling the river bet.

you end up getting 3 bet a lot as you move up when you c/r the flop in that situation I guess... or you just get called down by anything...

really, I hate using that line unless I got a big hand and want to look week to a smart player... to a smart player this might mean you think he is on a steal and his PP or whatever he holds is ahead thus playing back at you... of course this gets into playing the player a little bit when you go there...


one thing i have noticed a lot of at 3/6 lately is players will call the fucking raise from the blinds then donk out at you with any piece at all... it really throws off the steal line, it's even stranger when a tagg does that line...
donking owns. So effective. Ive started calling on the flop with anything as the stealer now and raising the turn in an attempt to counter this both with and without hands. I cant find a more effective counter to donking yet.
It has some effect in stoping the donking on the flop but also tightens up how often players will take donking-type hands to showdown once you show some later-street strength repetedly against their range.
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midas06
Old 05-06-2006, 03:20 PM     Post subject: Re: Defending a blind steal #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerfanatic
one thing i have noticed a lot of at 3/6 lately is players will call the fucking raise from the blinds then donk out at you with any piece at all... it really throws off the steal line, it's even stranger when a tagg does that line...
Party Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $3/$6
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG+1 with A 8
UTG folds, Hero raises, 2 folds, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: T 2 6 (6SB, 3 players)
SB bets, BB folds, Hero raises, SB folds.
Uncalled bets: 1SB returned to Hero.

Results:
Final pot: 4BB




Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 7, A.
UTG calls, Hero raises, 4 folds, UTG calls.

Flop: (5.33 SB) 2, A, K (2 players)
UTG bets, Hero raises, UTG folds.

Final Pot: 4.16 BB




Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 3, 9.
3 folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (2 SB) J, T, Q (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB folds.

Final Pot: 2.50 BB
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elipsesjeff
Old 05-06-2006, 05:27 PM #9 (permalink)  
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 Midas: hand 2 just call as long as he is willing to bet.


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midas06
Old 05-07-2006, 02:18 AM #10 (permalink)  
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That whole passivity thing?

Yeah I'm still not really getting the hang of it, any hh's where you use it, and when you don't?
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pokerfanatic
Old 05-07-2006, 03:27 AM #11 (permalink)  
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Hand 1:
Raise is for value not a steal, not really the situation i was thinking of...

Hand 2:
Like to call, because if he has a pair or a FD he's not folding anyways and he'll probably c/c down only with those and but he might bet down a BS King high...

Hand 3:
That was just plan ballsy, you get called or 3bet you are dead in the water... I’m not a fan of the pure BS bluff there, just seems you get called or raised to often for it to be +EV...
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midas06
Old 05-07-2006, 03:31 AM #12 (permalink)  
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Hand 3 I have an OESD
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pokerfanatic
Old 05-07-2006, 03:37 AM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midas06
Hand 3 I have an OESD
opps though you had 36 yea i like the play then...
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