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drmcboy
Old 06-13-2009, 05:16 AM     Post subject: Deep with underfull #1 (permalink)  
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 This is a deep stack table, both had their stacks when I sat down -50 hands ago. table was too tight and I was looking for a new one...

Full Tilt Pot-Limit Omaha, $2.00 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($293.85)
Hero (BB) ($407)
UTG ($384.95)
MP ($198)
CO ($213.60)
Button ($486.10)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A, 6, 6, Q
UTG calls $2, 2 folds, Button calls $2, SB calls $1, Hero checks

Flop: ($8) 5, 5, 6 (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $6, UTG calls $6, Button calls $6, 1 fold

Turn: ($26) A (3 players)
Hero bets $22, UTG calls $22, Button calls $22

River: ($92) 9 (3 players)
Hero

?
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bigspenda73
Old 06-13-2009, 05:29 AM #2 (permalink)  
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 [ ] underfull

seems like a big bet/fold although I'd have trouble finding a hand we lose to
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Old 06-13-2009, 06:48 AM #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
bet/fold
you spelled call wrong
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bigspenda73
Old 06-13-2009, 06:50 AM #4 (permalink)  
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 nah, thought about this one in the shower, no one's jamming worse, especially against our line
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Old 06-13-2009, 07:24 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Unless someone got to the the river with 99 which is unlikely without xhxh, there is exactly 2 combinations of hands that we're behind. You might be right given table is playing so tight but I would feel like such a dirty whore folding, knowing his value range we're behind of is so miniscule.

I'd still bet like $89.95 for value, let them get that shit on sale.
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drmcboy
Old 06-13-2009, 03:40 PM #6 (permalink)  
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 i did bet fold fwiw although I also was amazed when I was doing it. UTG folded BU raised. 5x99? Maybe a FD with AA.

is there a name for the non nut full that isn't underfull?
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bigspenda73
Old 06-13-2009, 03:47 PM #7 (permalink)  
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 what was his timing

either way prolly quads
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bigspenda73
Old 06-13-2009, 04:01 PM #8 (permalink)  
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 would be pretty sick if he could turn a naked 5 into a bluff here, I don't play deep much (esp. at 200plo) but what's the worst hand you seem him value-shoving here? We have to keep in mind he probably assumes we call a shove with 66xx and A5xx.

Thinking about this more hh's like this are why I love PLO. I'm actually torn between bet/call, check/call, and bet/fold now, what amount did you bet?
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drmcboy
Old 06-13-2009, 06:47 PM #9 (permalink)  
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 Full Tilt Pot-Limit Omaha, $2.00 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($293.85)
Hero (BB) ($407)
UTG ($384.95)
MP ($198)
CO ($213.60)
Button ($486.10)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A, 6, 6, Q
UTG calls $2, 2 folds, Button calls $2, SB calls $1, Hero checks

Flop: ($8) 5, 5, 6 (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $6, UTG calls $6, Button calls $6, 1 fold

Turn: ($26) A (3 players)
Hero bets $22, UTG calls $22, Button calls $22

River: ($92) 9 (3 players)
Hero bets $74, 1 fold, Button raises to $314, Hero folds

Total pot: $240 | Rake: $3


It wasn't like an instant raise, I think he either got to the time warning or was close to it.

I'm thinking the only hands I beat he could have are probably A5 and 59, unless like you said he's bluffing with a 5/flush?? I had not been at the table super long but for sure if he is bluffing it's the biggest move he's made in the session by a long shot. I don't think any pot at the table before this was over 50 BBs.

Quads really do make sense
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bigspenda73
Old 06-13-2009, 07:43 PM #10 (permalink)  
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 ya I also think A5xx raises the flop a fair % of the time, thus taking one of the hands that *might* value-shove out of the equation. The problem is we beat all 5x fullhouses and we have an Ace blocker. I think he has AAxx like never, besides our blocker he limped behind. If UTG raised river he has AAxx a lot but it'd have to be very raggy for btn to limp behind.

Sooooooo this is a spot where being 200bb deep impacts our initial river decision (as 100bb it's bet/call). Maybe I'm being a bit results oriented but I'm not sure what hands call a bet that wouldn't bet themselves. What I'm trying to say is it's tough for them to have a callable flush b/c the turn is the Ah, and if they have a boat they're betting, so I almost like check/call instead of bet/fold.
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drmcboy
Old 06-13-2009, 10:21 PM #11 (permalink)  
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 at the time I was thinking anyone with a 5 or flush would check behind and I was hoping any FH would call and only better would raise. And maybe I get calls from some curious flushes. I can't imagine a 5 calls ever. Hmm, maybe I should have bet 50, flush prbably has to call 50. but you are right, surely he'll bet 56+ and maybe I catch a bluff also.

but I swear I could see 9875 in his hand. it's a goofy raise but hey we play to beat goofy people. I'm guessing 6s full is not what he puts me on. at the same time I can't be bluffing this board vs two callers can I?

like I said I hit the fold button doing some serious muttering.

Gah. Let's decide I miracle saved 300 vs quads.
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bigspenda73
Old 06-14-2009, 08:55 AM #12 (permalink)  
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 so you still like betting over c/c'ing?
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drmcboy
Old 06-14-2009, 05:47 PM #13 (permalink)  
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 not really, I don't know what I like.
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bigspenda73
Old 06-14-2009, 06:38 PM #14 (permalink)  
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 The more I think about it the more I feel the hands we're worried about value-cutting themselves (A5xx 56xx) raise the flop with a high enough frequency that his river raising range is grossly polarized to AAxx, 55xx, 995x (or some 99xx combo) and air.

That point is moot if we decide to check, but since we bet the question is a bet/fold better than a bet/call? I'm convinced it is, I just don't see what hands he's turning into a bluff against our line.

I've completely 180'ed my initial thoughts and now like a check b/c I don't think flushes are calling river bets and he'll bet worse made hands for value.
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drmcboy
Old 06-14-2009, 06:58 PM #15 (permalink)  
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 yeah. I assume UTG had the FD and probably would have called river if BU folded turn but once I bet and BU called he figures one of us has to be full. And you would think BU bets any full on river after we check to him.
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DaGrinch
Old 06-18-2009, 06:41 PM #16 (permalink)  
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Just a dumb observation. Don't you think that we can eliminate AAxx from his range? Is anyone limping with AAxx in the hole? Seems more like 55xx or 99xx (or air) to me.
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drmcboy
Old 06-18-2009, 07:25 PM #17 (permalink)  
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 people limp with AAxx all the time, esp UTG. There are a lot of omaha players who don't raise at all pre flop, or need something like AKQJ with a nut suit to raise.

he doesn't have air (don't forget he called twice), but that doesn't mean he didn't bluff on purpose or by mistake.
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sky4ever
Old 06-20-2009, 08:03 AM #18 (permalink)  

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I bet you`re dying a lil`bit inside now that you didn`t c/c the river :P
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