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silverfist
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05-07-2006, 06:45 PM
Post subject: Dealing with Donk Bets
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 341
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I'm wondering how people normally play a hand like this. I raise with a decent pair, and a single overcard flops. My opponent donks. What is people's normal response to this sort of play? Folding just seems too weak. I'm thinking maybe raise the flop, then bet the turn and check the river, folding on the turn if I get 3-bet on the flop? Meh. I hate hands like this  .
PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
Preflop: Silverfist is UTG with Q , Q .
Silverfist raises, 8 folds, BB calls.
Flop: (4.40 SB) 4 , K, 6 (2 players)
BB bets, Silverfist ?
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
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Call. Why raise if he's only going to fold a worse hand. If he checks to you though, then bet.
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silverfist
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 341
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Call. Why raise if he's only going to fold a worse hand. If he checks to you though, then bet.
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All right, thanks. That makes sense. How should I play the rest of the hand, though, if he keeps betting? Assuming no ace or something truly frightening falls, should I just call this all the way down?
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euphoricism
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Call. Why raise if he's only going to fold a worse hand. If he checks to you though, then bet.
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Spot on. I will add, that the only way to really deal with these types of donkers is to know what theyve shown down when previously donked.
If he only ever donks with TPGK, your QQ might be toilet paper, and in extreme cases I might find a fold on the turn.
Most of the times I'm seeing showdown against these guys, though.
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Shark Bait
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 481
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I just posted a similar hand...just wondering about situations like this.
so you call, he bets again on the turn (blank) you call again and on the river as well? Or do you let it go somewhere?
Also, suppose you're the donk with K-rag. Do you donk it out or check raise or call down?
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<a500lbgorilla> Limit is poker with training wheels!
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euphoricism
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
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I generally call these all the way down unless the board gets seriously nasty.
If I was the donk with K-rag (and i usually am, these days) I tend to donk it. Sometimes I'll checkraise. Say, 70/30% difference. 70% donk, 30% C/R.
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TylerK
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME
Posts: 1,791
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Ed Miller posted a hand very similar to this on 2+2 a while back...his line was call, call, call (betting if checked to).
...do you see why?
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TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by euphoricism
I generally call these all the way down unless the board gets seriously nasty.
If I was the donk with K-rag (and i usually am, these days) I tend to donk it. Sometimes I'll checkraise. Say, 70/30% difference. 70% donk, 30% C/R.
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With Kx, i'm never checkraising this board unless its the river and I'm against an idiot.
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euphoricism
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
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Thank you for your concise statement, but its worthless to us. I personally know youre reasoning, don't want to fold a lesser hand, but uh, include some substance sometime, K? Thanks? ;]
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euphoricism
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Your place or my place
Posts: 3,610
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Further, if you always donk top pair out, and never check raise, and never check/call, you're giving your opponents some pretty nice info. Its worth doing, 30% might be a high number to do it, but im guesstimating, and suck at it.
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
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I dont play with my opponents enough that they know i donk out only top pair.
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Ragnar4
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Billings, Montana
Posts: 1,284
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from the BB, that dude could have anything. The level of sophistication of the player can be deduced by --Raising-- here. Lets say you raise, and he just calls. He may have a king, or he may have 46, or he may have 44, or even 66. Even sucky players know that a set is worth a re-raise here, but he'll just call with a king, or 2 pair. Then, get this, he'll probably try to check raise, if he's unsophisticated.
But since you're terrified he called with a King, he checks, and you give a few seconds, fumble with your chips a bit, and then check, watch his face, if he's online, giving it a few seconds doesn't hurt anyway. Lets say he leads out again on the R. You call, and he shows down a dirty king. You actually saved yourself a half a BB by raising on the river than simply call-call-calling.
Should you have improved by the river, he'll lead into you, and you'll raise, and make up any lost ground on the turn.
I found that the flop is a good place to get into confrontation when you have very strong pair hands, because it puts the fear in your opponent when you're behind, and for some reason they bet into you when you're ahead. It's odd, but I like it.
Heck, case in point, live play 3/6 here the other night. he's a Total Donk, I have KK, he has AK, he raises the flop, I 3-bet, he calls. flop comes ace poop poop rainbow. I realize I'm beat, but he bets, I Raise, he calls. He looks at me and check the blank turn. River comes with a King putting me back in the lead, and we go at it again ending in a cap at the river. I slowed him down on the turn. I love to be the guy with the last raise on the flop. It always scares them when the money doubles
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The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here? 
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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I would raise the flop then if he 3 bets call. On the turn if it's a blank i would bet if he checks and fold if he bets. not to many people will 3 bet the flop and lead out on the turn with less then top pair.
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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Let me add that in my above post i assume that you are playing a typical passive player.
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midas06
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NZ
Posts: 2,196
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Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
Preflop: Hero is Button with T , J.
2 folds, CO calls, Hero raises, 1 fold, BB calls, CO calls.
Flop: (6.33 SB) 6, A, A (3 players)
BB bets, CO folds, Hero raises, BB folds.
Final Pot: 4.66 BB
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TylerK
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: PEANUT BUTTER JELLY TIME
Posts: 1,791
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I used to have an awesome thread of raising donk bets, but I can't find it now.
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TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol
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koolmoe
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Drowning in prosperity
Posts: 1,279
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Call. Why raise if he's only going to fold a worse hand. If he checks to you though, then bet.
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Yeah, I agree with this but would strongly consider raising a blank turn if the flop were more drawish.
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