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Dealing with auto-checkraisers

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mcatdog

03-23-2006, 03:59 PM Post subject: Dealing with auto-checkraisers

#1 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Oct 2005

Location: St. Louis

Posts: 3,654

How do you guys deal with a big blind who likes to call your preflop raises and check-raise you on any flop that probably missed both of you? Sometimes I make a play like this and show my ace high to let him know that I won't put up with his crap, but a lot of times I end up putting a lot of money into the pot this way when I'm crushed.

PokerStars 3/6 Hold'em (5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP with 8

, A

.
1 fold, Hero raises, 2 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (4.33 SB) 3

, 3

, Q

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB raises, Hero 3-bets, BB folds.

Final Pot: 4.66 BB

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ihategnomes

03-23-2006, 04:43 PM

#2 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: Louisiana

Posts: 1,225

Stop betting into them or switch tables. The flop might have missed you both but most pairs have you in a hurtlock.

Field mice are fast, but owls can see in the dark.
<Bbickes> i still wanna know if the thing in your avatar is a real chick or not
<Bbickes> or am i e-crushing a dude

koolmoe

03-23-2006, 08:00 PM

#3 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jun 2004

Location: Drowning in prosperity

Posts: 1,279

Just call and see what happens on the turn. If it's just a play, he may give it up on the turn.

Don't be afraid to show down a naked A once in a while.

Poker is freedom

Rondavu

03-23-2006, 08:41 PM

#4 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 3,053

Quote:

Originally Posted by koolmoe

Don't be afraid to show down a naked A once in a while.

Ain't that the truth. That shit is gold at 5/10 and 10/20.

It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.

pokerfanatic

03-23-2006, 08:43 PM

#5 (permalink)

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Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: 6max limit tables

Posts: 1,968

I find myself in these situations when I have taggs on my left in the blinds one of my defenses from a tagg is the obvious call PF c/r flop so how does this change your thoughts if at all? I mean if you call and then raise the turn unimproved is he going to fold enough to be profitable, how do you defend against an obvious defense I guess is my question...

I think I play too Argo in these spots and could be leaking money, because i know he has probably something but my hand against his range is typically a favorite to win...

I'm just wanting more details on defending steals if you even try to defend them or do you just call in this case and c/f the turn? Give me some insight I think I trying to play a little to Argo against taggs that call down any pair eventfully when you keep raising them...

I mean I have an idea of this situation I just want some discussion on it…

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ihategnomes

03-23-2006, 10:14 PM

#6 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: Louisiana

Posts: 1,225

Quote:

Don't be afraid to show down a naked A once in a while.

I use the concept of fold now call later.

Field mice are fast, but owls can see in the dark.
<Bbickes> i still wanna know if the thing in your avatar is a real chick or not
<Bbickes> or am i e-crushing a dude

euphoricism

03-23-2006, 11:36 PM

#7 (permalink)

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I've noticed the 10/20 SH game has begun a "check-raise every flop" phase. Fact is these c/r's are almost always a pair. OFten a weak pair, rarely a strong one, sometimes a strong draw.

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mcatdog

03-24-2006, 11:03 PM

#8 (permalink)

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Join Date: Oct 2005

Location: St. Louis

Posts: 3,654

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP with K

, T

. UTG posts a blind of $3.
Hero raises, 1 fold, SB calls, 1 fold.

Flop: (5 SB) Q

, T

, J

(3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB raises, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) J

(3 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

River: (6.50 BB) 7

(3 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 8.50 BB

SB shows [ 4

, A

] a pair of jacks.
Hero shows [ K

, T

] two pairs, jacks and tens.
Hero wins $49 from the main pot with two pairs, jacks and tens.

euphoricism

03-25-2006, 04:22 PM

#9 (permalink)

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ive noticed that if you fold to one flop check/raise IE I raise preflop, bet the flop and he checkraises and I fold there -- theyll checkraise you EVERY TIME.

Now, this isnt a BAD thing, as its SO exploitable -- they think theyre being tricky, but really what theyre doing is putting too much money in the pot -- theyre not betting that they have a hand, theyre betting you don't. Well, pound em when ya do. River raises work great for it. A guy c/r'd the flop on me w/ Q high no pair no draw. I call with top pair, call the turn, pop the river, and he STILL calls with queen high!

They just can't seem to comprehend ...

All they're doing is donating money when youre ahead and letting you out cheap when youre not.

And even after you show down a few premium hands, theyll STILL DO IT. Its unreal. Once they start c/r'ng every flop, just start camping. Theyll punish themselves.

<Staxalax> Honestly, #flopturnriver is the one thing that has improved my game the most.
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LimpinAintEZ

03-30-2006, 06:46 PM

#10 (permalink)

Flush

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Location: working myself up to FTR fullhouse status while not giving 1 solid piece of advice

Posts: 591

Now, this isnt a BAD thing, as its SO exploitable -- they think theyre being tricky, but really what theyre doing is putting too much money in the pot -- theyre not betting that they have a hand, theyre betting you don't. Well, pound em when ya do. River raises work great for it. A guy c/r'd the flop on me w/ Q high no pair no draw. I call with top pair, call the turn, pop the river, and he STILL calls with queen high!

They just can't seem to comprehend ...

All they're doing is donating money when youre ahead and letting you out cheap when youre not.

And even after you show down a few premium hands, theyll STILL DO IT. Its unreal. Once they start c/r'ng every flop, just start camping. Theyll punish themselves.[/quote]

How many people are going to call the river with Q high though? I think you can determine the auto check raisers who are good and who aren't - I will be super aggressive with almost any hand at a SH limit table, but as soon as someone raises on turn or river, I have to re-evaluate my hand - I wouldn't ever call with a Q high unless i KNOW the guy is terrible - There really aren't enough of these players (in my opinion) to just sit back and camp on them - Its easy for me to notice when someone is camping on me - All I do is raise them 10x, knowing they are waiting for their "big hand" - It's so easy to spot them when they do I just lay it down - Meanwhile I still look like a maniac, and get PAID off everytime I have a real hand - I think you have to realize when someone is check-raising you on auto pilot, just be willing to call them with some more marginal hands - Obviously only when it's heads up especially - If you have 3 others in the pot just fold -

But you can't just sit back and wait for a big hand - not against any decent player -

this space intentionally left blank

euphoricism

03-30-2006, 07:33 PM

#11 (permalink)

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Thats the thing, these people aren't decent players. They might not call queen high, but theyll call second pair ALL DAY LONG.

With top pair vs an auto-checkraiser, and ive flopped top pair, I often do this:

Flop ABC
I bet, he checkraises, I call
Turn D
He bets, I "think... think... think... think..." call
River E
He either: checks, I bet, he calls
or
He bets, I raise, he calls.

I dont generally raise the turn against the auto checkraisers, because they want me to -- thats their signal to get out of the hand.

Now uh, get out of the limit forum with your 10x raise advice

<Staxalax> Honestly, #flopturnriver is the one thing that has improved my game the most.
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chardrian

03-30-2006, 07:41 PM

#12 (permalink)

I rarely,if ever, get pms

Join Date: Apr 2005

Posts: 4,524

Quote:

Originally Posted by koolmoe

Don't be afraid to show down a naked A once in a while.

Paradise Poker 10/20 Hold'em (4 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is SB with 7

, 3

.
UTG raises, 2 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) 9

, 7

, 8

(2 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, BB raises, UTG calls.

Turn: (4.25 BB) 3

(2 players)
BB bets, UTG calls.

River: (6.25 BB) 7

(2 players)
BB bets, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 8.25 BB

Results below:
BB has Ad 4h (one pair, sevens).
UTG has Jc As (one pair, sevens).
Outcome: UTG wins 8.25 BB.

midas06

03-30-2006, 07:58 PM

#13 (permalink)

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Location: NZ

Posts: 2,196

^ Hero wishes he defended

chardrian

03-30-2006, 08:12 PM

#14 (permalink)

I rarely,if ever, get pms

Join Date: Apr 2005

Posts: 4,524

LOL - didn't even notice that.

http://chardrian.blogspot.com
come check out my training videos at pokerpwnage.com

euphoricism

03-31-2006, 04:51 AM

#15 (permalink)

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Posts: 3,610

UTG raises are not steals.

<Staxalax> Honestly, #flopturnriver is the one thing that has improved my game the most.
Directions to join the #flopturnriver Internet Relay Chat - Come chat with us!

chardrian

03-31-2006, 04:20 PM

#16 (permalink)

I rarely,if ever, get pms

Join Date: Apr 2005

Posts: 4,524

Quote:

Originally Posted by euphoricism

UTG raises are not steals.

autocheckraisers are not smart enough to know that.

LimpinAintEZ

04-04-2006, 07:15 PM

#17 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Mar 2006

Location: working myself up to FTR fullhouse status while not giving 1 solid piece of advice

Posts: 591

Now uh, get out of the limit forum with your 10x raise advice

[/quote]

oh - i meant 10x in a row :P

this space intentionally left blank

-Clone-

04-05-2006, 11:10 AM

#18 (permalink)

Join Date: Apr 2006

Posts: 12

why play Ax in limit?

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Dealing with auto-checkraisers

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