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couple hands PLO8

  
 
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Chopper
Old 09-13-2007, 02:38 AM     Post subject: couple hands PLO8 #1 (permalink)  
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should i have bet this harder? when the flush draw hit, and i wasnt made already, i backed off even though i picked up a ton more outs...i figured the flush draws wouldnt go anywhere.

PokerStars Game #12026088832: Omaha Hi/Lo Pot Limit ($0.02/$0.05) - 2007/09/12 - 22:14:38 (ET)
Table 'Signe V' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: spdyer ($5.88 in chips)
Seat 2: OneFloppyNut ($7.13 in chips)
Seat 3: Passadena ($11.15 in chips)
Seat 4: DiSantos ($5.27 in chips)
Seat 5: pfsbulldawg ($5.85 in chips)
Seat 6: vualuck ($5.76 in chips)
Seat 7: RANDANDY ($3.90 in chips)
Seat 8: uptothelake ($1.82 in chips)
Seat 9: slokey14 ($6 in chips)
DiSantos: posts small blind $0.02
pfsbulldawg: posts big blind $0.05
slokey14: posts big blind $0.05
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to pfsbulldawg [Kd 6d Jc 4d]
vualuck: calls $0.05
RANDANDY: folds
uptothelake: folds
slokey14: checks
spdyer: calls $0.05
OneFloppyNut: folds
Passadena: calls $0.05
DiSantos: folds
pfsbulldawg: checks
*** FLOP *** [Tc 7s Qh]
pfsbulldawg: checks
vualuck: checks
slokey14: checks
spdyer: checks
Passadena: bets $0.10
pfsbulldawg: calls $0.10
vualuck: folds
slokey14: calls $0.10
spdyer: folds
*** TURN *** [Tc 7s Qh] [5s]
pfsbulldawg: checks
slokey14: checks
Passadena: checks
*** RIVER *** [Tc 7s Qh 5s] [9s]
pfsbulldawg: checks
slokey14: checks
Passadena: checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
pfsbulldawg: shows [Kd 6d Jc 4d] (HI: a straight, Nine to King)
slokey14: mucks hand
Passadena: shows [2h Ks 6h Jd] (HI: a straight, Nine to King)
pfsbulldawg collected $0.29 from pot
Passadena collected $0.28 from pot
No low hand qualified
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $0.57 | Rake $0
Board [Tc 7s Qh 5s 9s]
Seat 1: spdyer folded on the Flop
Seat 2: OneFloppyNut folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Passadena (button) showed [2h Ks 6h Jd] and won ($0.28) with HI: a straight, Nine to King
Seat 4: DiSantos (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: pfsbulldawg (big blind) showed [Kd 6d Jc 4d] and won ($0.29) with HI: a straight, Nine to King
Seat 6: vualuck folded on the Flop
Seat 7: RANDANDY folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: uptothelake folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: slokey14 mucked [5c Ah 9c 8c]


was this played ok? i had the nut low draw and wanted to build a pot. granted i had no shot at scooping. should i have waited until the nut low completed, or been afraid of being quartered? ive read you shouldnt wait at lower stakes to build pots...the one who waits until the river to bet is weak. and bet sizing? to large/small for pot building...obv, i dont want to scare off too many chasers.

PokerStars Game #12026239039: Omaha Hi/Lo Pot Limit ($0.02/$0.05) - 2007/09/12 - 22:22:58 (ET)
Table 'Signe V' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: spdyer ($6.75 in chips)
Seat 2: OneFloppyNut ($7.47 in chips)
Seat 3: Passadena ($10.16 in chips)
Seat 4: DiSantos ($5.25 in chips)
Seat 5: pfsbulldawg ($5.97 in chips)
Seat 6: vualuck ($5.59 in chips)
Seat 8: 1crackmonkey ($3.25 in chips)
Seat 9: slokey14 ($5.70 in chips)
spdyer: posts small blind $0.02
OneFloppyNut: posts big blind $0.05
1crackmonkey: posts big blind $0.05
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to pfsbulldawg [7s 2h 3s 4c]
Passadena: calls $0.05
DiSantos: calls $0.05
pfsbulldawg: calls $0.05
vualuck: folds
1crackmonkey: raises $0.05 to $0.10
slokey14: folds
spdyer: calls $0.08
OneFloppyNut: calls $0.05
Passadena: calls $0.05
DiSantos: calls $0.05
pfsbulldawg: calls $0.05
*** FLOP *** [6c Js As]
spdyer: checks
OneFloppyNut: checks
Passadena: checks
DiSantos: checks
pfsbulldawg: bets $0.20
1crackmonkey: calls $0.20
spdyer: calls $0.20
OneFloppyNut: folds
Passadena: folds
DiSantos: calls $0.20
*** TURN *** [6c Js As] [8h]
spdyer: checks
DiSantos: checks
pfsbulldawg: bets $0.40
1crackmonkey: calls $0.40
Passadena leaves the table
spdyer: calls $0.40
DiSantos: folds
*** RIVER *** [6c Js As 8h] [Kd]
spdyer: bets $1
pfsbulldawg: calls $1
1crackmonkey: folds
*** SHOW DOWN ***
spdyer: shows [Kc Qd Jh 6d] (HI: two pair, Kings and Jacks)
pfsbulldawg: shows [7s 2h 3s 4c] (HI: high card Ace; LO: 8,6,3,2,A)
spdyer collected $2.20 from pot
pfsbulldawg collected $2.20 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $4.60 | Rake $0.20
Board [6c Js As 8h Kd]
Seat 1: spdyer (small blind) showed [Kc Qd Jh 6d] and won ($2.20) with HI: two pair, Kings and Jacks
Seat 2: OneFloppyNut (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 3: Passadena folded on the Flop
Seat 4: DiSantos folded on the Turn
Seat 5: pfsbulldawg showed [7s 2h 3s 4c] and won ($2.20) with HI: high card Ace; LO: 8,6,3,2,A
Seat 6: vualuck folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: 1crackmonkey folded on the River
Seat 9: slokey14 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

i must say i like PL better than limit. you can actually bluff a little, if you pick your spots. you can valuebet (still working on outs counting to take away odds) easily. and not as many suckouts. the crap hands seem to be mostly gone by the river. and as long as you play a tight starting range that has some expected value, your own play should be pretty straightforward while you are learning.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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salsa4ever
Old 09-13-2007, 04:29 AM #2 (permalink)  
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if u use the converter you'll get more responses

hand 1 good. your new outs suck ass because of flush and if you hit them you probably have to split.

hand 2 you've got a flush draw! bet that shit. lack of conversion means I can't tell you how much you should have bet on each street. but I'm guessing about $0.5, then $1.5, and the rest on the river.
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well courtie, since we're both clear, would you accept an invitation for some unprotected sex?
 
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TLR
Old 09-13-2007, 05:05 AM #3 (permalink)  
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 Hand1: I think you played it fine
Hand2: I would put the turn, you have the nut low + protection and a possibility but not a great one to scoop if the flush hits


 
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Chopper
Old 09-13-2007, 05:59 AM #4 (permalink)  
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thx, guys. converter isnt liking me right now...unless theres another different that the one stickied.

so, you bet flush draws comboed to nut lows? you'd think that would be obvious, but i didnt want to scare off people when i knew the low hit the turn.

like i said before, though, i read i shouldnt wait until the river to jam the pot...its too late then.

i didnt think that flush draw was near strong enough. there have to be others out there with paint in them. but, i guess you guys are saying the low is a lock, so bet the draw and at least try and pick it up now...or outside chance the flush scoops? good thought. thx.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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TLR
Old 09-13-2007, 08:24 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper
thx, guys. converter isnt liking me right now...unless theres another different that the one stickied.

so, you bet flush draws comboed to nut lows? you'd think that would be obvious, but i didnt want to scare off people when i knew the low hit the turn.

like i said before, though, i read i shouldnt wait until the river to jam the pot...its too late then.

i didnt think that flush draw was near strong enough. there have to be others out there with paint in them. but, i guess you guys are saying the low is a lock, so bet the draw and at least try and pick it up now...or outside chance the flush scoops? good thought. thx.
With a lock for low and a possible weak draw you want to bet the max, a very good result is if everyone folds and you pick up the pot


 
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Chopper
Old 09-13-2007, 12:48 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TLR
With a lock for low and a possible weak draw you want to bet the max, a very good result is if everyone folds and you pick up the pot
for some reason i am thinking this is a game of "overcallers." my NLHE background would tell me to bet my ass off there, and avoid giving free cards to potentially better Hi draws, and if they pay the price, so be it.

also, what is a typical "bet size?" i know it depends on both the table and what you are trying to accomplish. but, is "standard" (for low stakes) 1/2 pot? full pot? less? this actually makes a full pot bet a great bluffing tactic, if used sparingly.

it seems that people are reluctant to bust in a full pot bet before the river...is that weakness i should be taking advantage of? seems once they get used to me betting the flop and turn with good hands, it makes the nut Los and scoops pay off huge, but also seems that the variance goes way up. however, i would be bumping a lot of people out early and picking up small pots while they are adjusting, right?
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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bigspenda73
Old 09-13-2007, 02:26 PM #7 (permalink)  
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 in a Pot-Limit game your default bet-size should be pot, at least on the first 2 streets unless you have a total lock and are going for value.
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Chopper
Old 09-13-2007, 05:27 PM #8 (permalink)  
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thank you, spenda.

however, that seemed to fold everyone off last night. could be the table, could be the stakes. it just seemed like everyone ran.

which, now that i think about it...isnt a bad thing.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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bigspenda73
Old 09-13-2007, 05:36 PM #9 (permalink)  
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 someone folding half the pot away to you is certainly a good thing. If you have an immortal lock on both ends then I guess slowplaying is viable, it all depends on the size of the pot and their ability to make a second best hand with another card.
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swiggidy
Old 09-13-2007, 11:04 PM #10 (permalink)  
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 try this convertor
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Chopper
Old 09-14-2007, 03:58 AM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
someone folding half the pot away to you is certainly a good thing. If you have an immortal lock on both ends then I guess slowplaying is viable, it all depends on the size of the pot and their ability to make a second best hand with another card.
i just read somewhere that you want to build the pots early with draws to either end of the nuts, especially scoops. but, you wouldnt want to drive away customers when you only have half locked up, right?

if you locked up the lo, dont you want to bet softer to let others come along with 2nd lo, or continue drawing for hi? if a psb will blow them out, doesnt that cost us money when we have made one end?
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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Chopper
Old 09-14-2007, 03:59 AM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swiggidy
try this convertor
link please?
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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salsa4ever
Old 09-14-2007, 08:13 AM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
someone folding half the pot away to you is certainly a good thing. If you have an immortal lock on both ends then I guess slowplaying is viable, it all depends on the size of the pot and their ability to make a second best hand with another card.
i just read somewhere that you want to build the pots early with draws to either end of the nuts, especially scoops. but, you wouldnt want to drive away customers when you only have half locked up, right?

if you locked up the lo, dont you want to bet softer to let others come along with 2nd lo, or continue drawing for hi? if a psb will blow them out, doesnt that cost us money when we have made one end?
sorry, but "it depends"
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well courtie, since we're both clear, would you accept an invitation for some unprotected sex?
 
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Chopper
Old 09-14-2007, 01:22 PM #14 (permalink)  
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i understand the "it depends" answer because this seems like a little more complex game w/o the "cut and dry" lines.

but, generally, what do you look for to start firing at will?

and where do you look to kind of "tease the pot" with draws?

can you give me some ideas about what kind of holdings/how many outs you would typically like to see before getting aggressive?

i'm starting to get a feel for some of these things. and, clearly, you can "sense" when you should throw a bet out there, or when you should wait a little bit. but, i dont want to build pots unnecessarily or way too early chasing draws.

i know its a math thing.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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bigspenda73
Old 09-14-2007, 02:55 PM #15 (permalink)  
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 If all you have is a lock-low and the pot is HeadsUp the question becomes is there more merit to just playing passively or should you try to blow your opponent out of his half of the pot?

If you have the lock-low with even top-pair I'd be going nuts in a heads-up pot, however, like Salsa said, it depends, and it really depends if it's a multi-way situation.
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Chopper
Old 09-14-2007, 05:30 PM #16 (permalink)  
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as always.

preeeeciate it.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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davebreal
Old 09-15-2007, 08:13 AM #17 (permalink)  

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
in a Pot-Limit game your default bet-size should be pot, at least on the first 2 streets unless you have a total lock and are going for value.
no.
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Chopper
Old 09-15-2007, 01:06 PM #18 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davebreal
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
in a Pot-Limit game your default bet-size should be pot, at least on the first 2 streets unless you have a total lock and are going for value.
no.
no offense, but i hate these answers. i dont mean to slam you on your first post. this is pretty much a "me" thing...welcome aboard, btw.

but, if youre going to the trouble of reading/posting a reply, and i assume you are here to help, please explain...

WHY NOT?

otherwise, whats the point? we ask the questions to learn/debate. and, a one word answer doesnt do much to teach/debate anything...unless you are simply agreeing with someone.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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bigspenda73
Old 09-15-2007, 01:37 PM #19 (permalink)  
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 what sucks is I am probably wrong cuz dave plays higher stakes Omaha8b but it would be nice for someone who should be a good poster to explain a little bit...
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salsa4ever
Old 09-16-2007, 01:47 AM #20 (permalink)  
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he is correct.

but I'll give him a chance to explain. if you see my hands you'll find betting the pot is an exception rather than the rule.
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well courtie, since we're both clear, would you accept an invitation for some unprotected sex?
 
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bigspenda73
Old 09-16-2007, 01:55 AM #21 (permalink)  
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 I think I was just thinking PL Omaha, I really do not play PL8b at all, just limit. Therefore, my bad.
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swiggidy
Old 09-17-2007, 02:39 AM #22 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper
Quote:
Originally Posted by swiggidy
try this convertor
link please?
ya, wtf?

http://legopoker.com/hh/index.php

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
what sucks is I am probably wrong cuz dave plays higher stakes Omaha8b but it would be nice for someone who should be a good poster to explain a little bit...
wp, but he's clearly trolling
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davebreal
Old 09-17-2007, 04:25 AM #23 (permalink)  

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Quote:
what sucks is I am probably wrong cuz dave plays higher stakes Omaha8b but it would be nice for someone who should be a good poster to explain a little bit...
it's very simple, betting the bot too often will over commit you too often to pots that you don't need to be committed too, will scare out customers when you actually want customers, and will make your smaller bluffs and value bets extremely transparent.

there are plenty of times and places for full pot bets, but i don't like to think of it as a default bet.
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Chopper
Old 09-17-2007, 05:08 AM #24 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davebreal
Quote:
what sucks is I am probably wrong cuz dave plays higher stakes Omaha8b but it would be nice for someone who should be a good poster to explain a little bit...
it's very simple, betting the bot too often will over commit you too often to pots that you don't need to be committed too, will scare out customers when you actually want customers, and will make your smaller bluffs and value bets extremely transparent.

there are plenty of times and places for full pot bets, but i don't like to think of it as a default bet.
thx. care to share more? i can see where you are value betting flops and turns, etc. but when is the psb appropriate in you opinion? surely not only on the river with the nuts, and you know your opponent cant lay his hand down.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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swiggidy
Old 09-17-2007, 11:45 PM #25 (permalink)  
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 well dave, guess I was wrong. I hope you stick around and continue to add content. We need more Omaha players.

Chopper. When does it make sense to bet more/less?

:Kh:
You have naked KKxx, naked 88xx
You have nut flush draw
You have flush +straight draw AT9x

It also depends on opponents. Do they call too much on the flop? Do they fold too much? How would these affect your play. (I think this last one is much more important at micro stakes).
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Chopper
Old 09-18-2007, 01:51 AM #26 (permalink)  
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no clue. thats why i'm here. check my thought process, though, please.

KKXX...you have 10 outs to boat and nothing else going for you in a likely split pot scenario. with that flush and str8 draw up there, i feel i need the boat to be "good." i likely have the best hand as of now, though. from my low stakes 10PLO8 is as high as ive gone. i guess that should have me being aggressive to drive out the chasers, but i doubt i can take away odds so i charge as much as i can, and ...POT IT.

nut flush draw...here i need the nuts to come in w/o pairing the board. you didnt mention i have anything going for me as far as the Lo is concerned. i assume that means i dont. therefore, with no chance to scoop, i play rather passively and try to build a pot with a 1/2 or 2/3 bet that would entice others along for the ride. again, though, at 10PLO8, am i worried about "hiding my draw" with any aggression? it may be best here, if i know someone is likely to bet, to let them and call, unless everyone else suddenly drops out.

combo w/ A...first, assuming no Lo, i bet pot to jam as much in as i can, unless i feel the table will fold...i cant afford to lose customers. i bet as much as i feel the table will afford. oop, i may c/r if possible, waiting for someone right behind me to bet, get some callers, and sweeten it further. if i have position, i am looking for a small bet fearing driving anyone out. second, if i have the 2 or 3, i have a nice shot at a scoop. so, i prolly blast the flop where most cant fold anyway. what do i care? i need the biggest pot possible, and POTTING it is the best way, i think. if some fold, no worries, i am potting again on the turn...sure to get more in there, too.

does any of that sound logical, or am i backwards. this is helping me immensely. thanks, swigg.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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swiggidy
Old 09-19-2007, 12:16 AM #27 (permalink)  
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 I'm such an idiot. I keep forgetting you're playing PLO8.

Not sure if I mentioned it, but one case where it's more obvious is 2 way pot vs multi-way. You should be more likely to bet pot with any kind of obvious draw on the board when you think you're currently good. 2 way it depends more on reads.

Anyway, what I think:
High set, especially multi-way I would pot it.

Nut flush, I would also bet less than pot here because you're almost guaranteed a call.

I like your reasoning for the combo too.

The problem is these may/may not be hands you should be seeing a flop with anyway, obv position matters (1/2 pot always vs folding stations from LP, etc).

Another thing, I would consider potting this flop with a lot of highish hands, knowing villains at 10PL will never fold a low draw.
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Old 09-19-2007, 05:13 AM #28 (permalink)  
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Location: St. Louis, MO
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Chopper
tru dat...about the not folding a low draw. i see them chase runner runner all the friggin time.

its like they love O8 for the low only. lol.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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