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dsaxton
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09-05-2007, 09:42 PM
Post subject: A couple hands against a tagg.
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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Opponent is a mediocre / bad tagg with lame showdown tendencies.
Hand 1: Standard?
PokerStars 3/6 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
Preflop: Hero is BB with K , A .
2 folds, CO raises, 2 folds, Hero 3-bets, CO caps, Hero calls.
Flop: (8.33 SB) 8, 7 , 8 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks.
Turn: (4.16 BB) 3 (2 players)
Hero bets, CO calls.
River: (6.16 BB) A (2 players)
Hero bets, CO raises, Hero 3-bets
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Hand 2 : Given his tendency to make retarded calls, should I bet / fold, or check / fold this river?
PokerStars 3/6 Hold'em (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
Preflop: Hero is BB with 5, 5.
2 folds, Button raises, 1 fold, Hero calls.
Flop: (4.33 SB) 8, T, T (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.
Turn: (3.16 BB) 3 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.
River: (3.16 BB) K (2 players)
Hero ?
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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I would check the river in hand 2 to an aggressive player.
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
I would check the river in hand 2 to an aggressive player.
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Reasoning?
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DrivingDog
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 923
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Hand 1: If he's routinely capping hands that aren't even worth a c-bet on a raggedy flop like this, i'd start taking the lead on the flop with any hand you're 3betting from the blinds. Otherwise looks good to me.
Hand 2: You're almost certainly ahead of his stealing range here with 55, so i'd 3bet preflop and lead the flop. If you're just going to call preflop, you're well ahead of even a tight stealer's range on this flop so i'd c/r and lead the turn. If he calls the c/r and raises the turn, then you have a decision to make. Once you get to the river the way this hand has played out i think you have to c/c. For meta-game alone i don't think you can start folding decent hands every time an Ace or King river comes. Even if calling is -EV I think it sends the right message.
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"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dsaxton
Reasoning?
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More likely to bluff. Actually, I misread the action. A river donk looks pretty sexy...
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by DrivingDog
Hand 2: You're almost certainly ahead of his stealing range here with 55, so i'd 3bet preflop and lead the flop. If you're just going to call preflop, you're well ahead of even a tight stealer's range on this flop so i'd c/r and lead the turn. If he calls the c/r and raises the turn, then you have a decision to make. Once you get to the river the way this hand has played out i think you have to c/c. For meta-game alone i don't think you can start folding decent hands every time an Ace or King river comes. Even if calling is -EV I think it sends the right message.
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I sometimes 3-bet preflop and sometimes just call and check-raise many flops. On a paired, coordinated flop like this, my equity can be quite poor even when I have the "best" hand. So, I often like to minimize my risk in the hand since playing passively has the added benefit of inducing a player like this to overplay ace high or a bluff.
I'm not saying that you shouldn't check-raise the flop here, only that passive play has some merits in these situations that are often overlooked. Also, I think that when two plays seem similar in value, you should randomize your play between the two to avoid readability (another example might be playing ace rag out of position when an ace flops against a loose aggressive player, where check-calling and check-raising the flop run close in value).
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littleogre
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,344
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Hand 1 i would of lead out on the flop.
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DrivingDog
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 923
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dsaxton
I sometimes 3-bet preflop and sometimes just call and check-raise many flops. On a paired, coordinated flop like this, my equity can be quite poor even when I have the "best" hand. So, I often like to minimize my risk in the hand since playing passively has the added benefit of inducing a player like this to overplay ace high or a bluff.
I'm not saying that you shouldn't check-raise the flop here, only that passive play has some merits in these situations that are often overlooked. Also, I think that when two plays seem similar in value, you should randomize your play between the two to avoid readability (another example might be playing ace rag out of position when an ace flops against a loose aggressive player, where check-calling and check-raising the flop run close in value).
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Fair enough. It just seems like you're giving cheap cards with what is probably the best hand. HU your equity is always >50% when you're ahead on this flop unless he has two diamond overcards or Jd9d, and those hands are a pretty small % of his stealing range. I can see the point of playing passively to induce bluffs...just not a situation where i'd do it.
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"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by littleogre
Hand 1 i would of lead out on the flop.
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Why?
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