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Correct Clarkmeister?

  
 
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midas06
Old 12-21-2005, 01:02 AM     Post subject: Correct Clarkmeister? #1 (permalink)  
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Also, lead the flop, or Check Raise it?

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (5 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 2, 7.
1 fold, MP calls, 2 folds, Hero checks.

Flop: (2.50 SB) 5, 2, 7 (2 players)
Hero bets, MP calls.

Turn: (2.25 BB) 9 (2 players)
Hero bets, MP calls.

River: (4.25 BB) Q (2 players)
Hero bets, MP raises, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 7.25 BB
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DaNutsInYoEye
Old 12-21-2005, 01:39 AM     Post subject: Re: Correct Clarkmeister? #2 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midas06
Also, lead the flop, or Check Raise it?

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (5 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 2, 7.
1 fold, MP calls, 2 folds, Hero checks.

Flop: (2.50 SB) 5, 2, 7 (2 players)
Hero bets, MP calls.

Turn: (2.25 BB) 9 (2 players)
Hero bets, MP calls.

River: (4.25 BB) Q (2 players)
Hero bets, MP raises, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 7.25 BB
Let a NL player give it a try...

If you check the flop what makes you think he'll bet given that there was no pre-flop aggression?

Why bet the river when he isn't going to call you without a spade anyways and if he has the ace he is going to make a raise which you can't call? It's one of those situations where you're only getting called, if not raised, if you're beat. If you check-call it's costing you the same 1BB and it gives him the opportunity to bluff at it.
TheXianti: (Triptanes) why are you not a thinking person?
 
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Romulus141
Old 12-21-2005, 02:15 AM #3 (permalink)  
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Read about Clarkmeister's Theory here:
http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/...=5&o=93&fpart=

Anyway, the point is try and get your opponent to fold. It's a line you're going to try either when you're way ahead or behind. If your opponent simply has a pair (especially if its one that beats yours), he or she will probably fold it thinking you have a flush. The only time he or she will reraise you is if he or she has the nuts: a flush or better. Your opponent may also call with a marginal hand which you may be able to beat anyway. For Clarkmeister's Theory to be +EV, it needs to get people to fold hands that beat you. From what I understand, it does.
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midas06
Old 12-21-2005, 02:26 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Yes, I know what the Clarkmeister theory is, I was wondering if this was the right time to use it.
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Romulus141
Old 12-21-2005, 02:30 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midas06
Yes, I know what the Clarkmeister theory is, I was wondering if this was the right time to use it.
I was explaining it to DaNutsInYoEye, since he seemed confused as to why you bet the river.

I think you did it fine. You were out of position, heads up, and the four flush came. Only a suicidal maniac would bluff-raise this, so you correctly folded.
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Demiparadigm
Old 12-21-2005, 02:48 AM #6 (permalink)  
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People are bluff raising 4 flushes like crazy lately. Its the new cool thing to do.

If it gets people to fold every time they don't have the nuts, It would be correct to raise EVERY time there is a 4 flush on the board.

Clarkmeister used to be a good theory, but it is exploitable.
To win in poker you only need to be one step ahead of your opponents. Two steps may be detrimental.
 
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rubixstreub
Old 12-21-2005, 02:59 AM #7 (permalink)  
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Hijack!
After reading 2+2....

check/call, check/call, bet line still work with TPNK out of position HU vs. late aggression? It makes a lot of sense....
Come give me advice.
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...oker-58488.htm
 
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Demiparadigm
Old 12-21-2005, 03:01 AM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rubixstreub
Hijack!
After reading 2+2....

check/call, check/call, bet line still work with TPNK out of position HU vs. late aggression? It makes a lot of sense....
He has 2 pair in a 6 max game. This is not a WA/WB hand. I actually don't mind DNuts' check/call to induce a bluff on this specific hand.
To win in poker you only need to be one step ahead of your opponents. Two steps may be detrimental.
 
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rubixstreub
Old 12-21-2005, 03:05 AM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demiparadigm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rubixstreub
Hijack!
After reading 2+2....

check/call, check/call, bet line still work with TPNK out of position HU vs. late aggression? It makes a lot of sense....
He has 2 pair in a 6 max game. This is not a WA/WB hand.
That's why I was trying to hijack... I was responding to the 2+2 thread and the link in that thread regarding hitting TPNK vs. Late preflop aggression.

I apologize if the Hijack is out of line, but I thought the check/call, check/call, bet line was interesting and I hadn't seen it before.

WA/WB??? What's that?
Come give me advice.
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...oker-58488.htm
 
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Demiparadigm
Old 12-21-2005, 03:09 AM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rubixstreub
Quote:
Originally Posted by Demiparadigm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rubixstreub
Hijack!
After reading 2+2....

check/call, check/call, bet line still work with TPNK out of position HU vs. late aggression? It makes a lot of sense....
He has 2 pair in a 6 max game. This is not a WA/WB hand.
That's why I was trying to hijack... I was responding to the 2+2 thread and the link in that thread regarding hitting TPNK vs. Late preflop aggression.

I apologize if the Hijack is out of line, but I thought the check/call, check/call, bet line was interesting and I hadn't seen it before.

WA/WB??? What's that?
Oh. check/call check/call bet is the standard "Way ahead/ way behind" line.
If you have a hand that may have your opponent beat, but either you will win a little or lose a lot, (because you only get action when beaten) then it is the best way to make the most ahead and lose the least behind.
To win in poker you only need to be one step ahead of your opponents. Two steps may be detrimental.
 
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Demiparadigm
Old 12-21-2005, 03:15 AM #11 (permalink)  
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Back to the original thread (sort of)
If you have a hand that may be best, and may get a call from a worse hand, and may fold a better hand, but will never be raised by anything but the nuts (the same requirements for clarkmeister,)
Then when someone bets into you when the 4 flush comes you should raise every time. (creepy thought huh?)
To win in poker you only need to be one step ahead of your opponents. Two steps may be detrimental.
 
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midas06
Old 12-21-2005, 04:00 AM #12 (permalink)  
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Ew.
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koolmoe
Old 12-21-2005, 03:30 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Clarkmeister works a lot better when you haven't been firing at the pot the whole way.

You also need to be fairly certain that your opponent is not capable of bluff-raising in that spot. The more your opponent bluffs, the more inclined you should be to check-call.
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