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A common exit strategy

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ArcticKnight

01-29-2006, 08:14 PM Post subject: A common exit strategy

#1 (permalink)

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Location: golf course

Posts: 416

When players go on a losing roll... they often seem to go into an "all-in" mentality on what may be there last hand.

Happened last night, be seems fairly common, especially if they think they are being pushed around.

Two hands in a row..

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (6 max, 4 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is SB with A

, A

. UTG posts a blind of $25.
UTG (poster) raises, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, 1 fold, UTG calls.

Flop: (7.66 SB) 8

, 7

, J

(2 players)
Hero bets, UTG calls.

Turn: (4.83 BB) J

(2 players)
Hero bets, UTG folds.

Final Pot: 5.83 BB

Results in white below:
No showdown. Hero wins 5.83 BB.

Unfortunately, this was the very next hand.......I hated the turn card ughh...

By the way, I hardly every cap with KK,AA heads up. I always do multi- way. AA and KK seem to set up well for the "reluctant" call after the 3-bet HU.

Be interested to know how other 6maxers treat AA and KK heads-up against a 3 bet. Call or raise???

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (6 max, 4 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is Button with K

, K

.
1 fold, Hero raises, 1 fold, BB 3-bets, Hero calls.

Flop: (6.66 SB) 3

, 4

, Q

(2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, Hero caps, BB calls.

Turn: (7.33 BB) A

(2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

River: (9.33 BB) 6

(2 players)
BB calls $9.40 (All-In), Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9.96 BB

Results in white below:
BB has 8s 2h (high card, ace).
Hero has Kh Ks (one pair, kings).
Outcome: Hero wins 9.96 BB.

Gone golfing ..see ya in the Fall of 2006
PS. What did the snail on the turtle's back say?
Wheeeeeeeee........

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elipsesjeff

01-29-2006, 08:32 PM

#2 (permalink)

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elipsesjeff is an unknown quantity at this point

I really dont like not capping KK HU, because it is much more vulnerable than AA is.

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euphoricism

01-29-2006, 08:37 PM

#3 (permalink)

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If I noticed the guy was going to be AI anyway, I'm taking it to showdown whether or not an A hits on the flop. So I don't mind so much slowing down preflop to make the guy think he has a chance of taking it down UI, forcing him to bet, rather than call.

And I raise that turn. He's gonna be AI anyway, and I can't fold, so...

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Xanadu

01-29-2006, 09:08 PM

#4 (permalink)

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Join Date: May 2005

Location: st. paul, MO

Posts: 966

One of my limit poker rules is never fold to the super-short stacked opponent with a reasonable hand. Way, way too many limit players play a hand when they have 5 or less BB like they are short stacked in a NL tourney. 90% of the time their aggression means 'F*** it, I have a decent (or crappy) hand preflop, and this is my last hand, so I am goin' balls to the wall'. The good players would never play a hand with 5 BB right?

koolmoe

01-29-2006, 09:12 PM Post subject: Re: A common exit strategy

#5 (permalink)

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Join Date: Jun 2004

Location: Drowning in prosperity

Posts: 1,279

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArcticKnight

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (6 max, 4 handed)
UTG posts a blind of $25.

This guy is a total retard. I'm capping every street on both hands.

Poker is freedom

pokerfanatic

01-29-2006, 09:19 PM Post subject: Re: A common exit strategy

#6 (permalink)

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Location: 6max limit tables

Posts: 1,968

Quote:

Originally Posted by koolmoe

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArcticKnight

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (6 max, 4 handed)
UTG posts a blind of $25.

This guy is a total retard. I'm capping every street on both hands.

That’s odd I’m thinking that was the converter puking...

“Dream as if you’ll live forever. Live as if you’ll die today.” ~ James Dean ~

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koolmoe

01-29-2006, 09:28 PM Post subject: Re: A common exit strategy

#7 (permalink)

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Join Date: Jun 2004

Location: Drowning in prosperity

Posts: 1,279

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerfanatic

Quote:

Originally Posted by koolmoe

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArcticKnight

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (6 max, 4 handed)
UTG posts a blind of $25.

This guy is a total retard. I'm capping every street on both hands.

That’s odd I’m thinking that was the converter puking...

No, he posted BB ($15) + dead SB ($10) UTG. Total retard.

Poker is freedom

ArcticKnight

01-29-2006, 10:09 PM

#8 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2004

Location: golf course

Posts: 416

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xanadu

. The good players would never play a hand with 5 BB right?

These "lottery" type players pop into 10/20 6max with their $100 all the time.

I think they have this idea that they can only lose $100, but can make $300 or $400. That's why they often leave after making some $. Next thing you know they are back with $100 again.

Of course we all now how stupid this is. I laugh when some with $40 gets AA and takes my TPTK down, when they could have had a $200 plus pot.
I mean they want the "big" win (cause they certainly don't have the $$ to grind it out), but they don't bring the bucks to make the big win??

Anyway, one thing to be leary about with some of these guys, is that a fewknow all the literature says to attack a small stack and assume the player is weak til proven otherwise. I read on another site where a guy said that this gives him an edge.....

Well it probably does give him an edge...instead of being an idiot he gets promoted to being an imbecile.

However, many times I see otherwise reasonable players go to battle with these $100 guys with very marginal hands. I'm not comfortable with that approach, as I think it plays right into them.

Gone golfing ..see ya in the Fall of 2006
PS. What did the snail on the turtle's back say?
Wheeeeeeeee........

bencathers

01-29-2006, 10:23 PM

#9 (permalink)

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Location: Manhattan & Boston

Posts: 480

I find it a lot at 5/10 as well... except it seems to be people's entire br's... where you get weird amounts like 113.50 and its time to "GO BIG OR GO HOME". I wrote a long rant/post about this before the ftr crash

Dealer: bencathers has two pair, Aces and Deuces
Dealer: Tbags has two pair, Kings and Jacks
Dealer: Tbags finished the tournament in 256th place
Tbags [observer]: another scumbag gets there on this site lol

Xanadu

01-29-2006, 10:29 PM

#10 (permalink)

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Join Date: May 2005

Location: st. paul, MO

Posts: 966

ArcticKnight, the mistake is to go to battle with a very maginal hand. When I say never fold with a reasonable hand, i mean it. A reasonable hand from the point of view of a good player. If I've got 2nd pair on the flop and a guy with 4BB bets into me heads up, I'm raising or calling to let him try to bluff me again on the turn. Sure he could have a big hand, but from experience, people with a very small stack left are just gambooling for their last hand.

bencathers

01-29-2006, 10:56 PM

#11 (permalink)

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Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: Manhattan & Boston

Posts: 480

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xanadu

Or they hit a small part of the flop in the hope of hitting two pair. Its their last chance before they uninstall pokerstars!

ArcticKnight

01-30-2006, 12:06 AM

#12 (permalink)

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Location: golf course

Posts: 416

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xanadu

Thanks Xanadu

I noted that in your post. My comment about loosening up to attack the short stack was an observation about what I have seen others mistakenly do. Didn't intend to infer it was something you were advocating.

Gone golfing ..see ya in the Fall of 2006
PS. What did the snail on the turtle's back say?
Wheeeeeeeee........

bencathers

01-30-2006, 12:54 AM

#13 (permalink)

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Posts: 480

Here's an example of a guy on his last buy-in doing anything. Yes, he capped with 8h, 4h.

PokerStars 5/10 Hold'em (6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is CO with 8

, 8

.
2 folds, Hero raises, Button calls, SB 3-bets, 1 fold, Hero calls, Button calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 9

, 3

, 7

(3 players)
SB bets $2 (All-In), Hero calls, Button calls.

Turn: (5.60 BB) A

(3 players, 1 all-in)
Hero checks, Button checks.

River: (5.60 BB) 2

(3 players, 1 all-in)
Hero checks, Button checks.

Final Pot: 5.60 BB

Results in white below:
SB has 8h 4h (high card, ace).
Hero has 8c 8d (one pair, eights).
Button has Tc Ks (high card, ace).
Outcome: Hero wins 5.60 BB.

edit: forgot to include results

Xanadu

01-30-2006, 01:25 PM

#14 (permalink)

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Join Date: May 2005

Location: st. paul, MO

Posts: 966

I also like to isolate these players when possible postflop. As long as I have at least 2 overcards, or an Ace plus a card just under the top card on board, I like to raise the all-in bettor in those cases I think it is likely I'll get heads up. This would be in cases where they have enough chips for 1 full bet, but not enough for 2 or sometimes 3. If I'm behind, I get a free card/showdown. If ahead, I've isolated what is typically the weaker hand.

ihategnomes

02-09-2006, 08:38 AM

#15 (permalink)

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Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: Louisiana

Posts: 1,225

Quote:

I really dont like not capping KK HU, because it is much more vulnerable than AA is.

But dont you think risking 1 SB is worth the deception you get from not capping HU? Capping HU doesnt stop an A from hitting the board.

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outphase

02-09-2006, 02:22 PM

#16 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Apr 2005

Posts: 949

Quote:

Originally Posted by elipsesjeff

I really dont like not capping KK HU, because it is much more vulnerable than AA is.

vulnerable... or hard to get away from

Quote:

Originally Posted by lambchopdc

Lets stop talking ABC poker and move on to D, E, and F.

elipsesjeff

02-09-2006, 07:18 PM

#17 (permalink)

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Join Date: Jul 2004

Location: Northern Virginia

Posts: 4,900

Quote:

Originally Posted by ihategnomes

Quote:

I really dont like not capping KK HU, because it is much more vulnerable than AA is.

But dont you think risking 1 SB is worth the deception you get from not capping HU? Capping HU doesnt stop an A from hitting the board.

It may persuade your opponent from raising you on a bigger street with an ace in his hand like AJ, AT, etc.

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ArcticKnight

02-10-2006, 02:21 AM

#18 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2004

Location: golf course

Posts: 416

I prefer the deception at the risk of 1sb.

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is CO with K

, K

.
2 folds, Hero raises, Button 3-bets, 2 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 3

, 4

, 3

(2 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, Button caps, Hero calls.

Turn: (7.75 BB) 4

(2 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, Button calls $18 (All-In).

River: (13.65 BB) 6

(2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: 13.65 BB

Results in white below:
Hero has Kc Kd (two pair, kings and fours).
Button has Ts Th (two pair, tens and fours).
Outcome: Hero wins 13.65 BB.

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (4 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with K

, K

.
UTG raises, 2 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (4.66 SB) 5

, 7

(2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, Hero raises, UTG calls.

Turn: (4.33 BB) 8

(2 players)
Hero bets, UTG calls.

River: (6.33 BB) 6

(2 players)
Hero bets, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 8.33 BB

Results in white below:
Hero has Kh Kc (two pair, kings and sevens).
UTG has Jh Ad (one pair, sevens).
Outcome: Hero wins 8.33 BB.

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (6 max, 4 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is Button with K

, K

.
1 fold, Hero raises, 1 fold, BB 3-bets, Hero calls.

Flop: (6.66 SB) 3

, 4

, Q

(2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, Hero caps, BB calls.

Turn: (7.33 BB) A

(2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

River: (9.33 BB) 6

(2 players)
BB calls $9.40 (All-In), Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9.96 BB

Results in white below:
BB has 8s 2h (high card, ace).
Hero has Kh Ks (one pair, kings).
Outcome: Hero wins 9.96 BB.

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is Button with K

, K

.
2 folds, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, 1 fold, Hero calls.

Flop: (7 SB) Q

, 5

, 3

(2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 6

(2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, Hero caps, SB calls.

River: (12.50 BB) J

(2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.

Final Pot: 14.50 BB

Results in white below:
SB has 8c 8h (one pair, eights).
Hero has Kh Kc (one pair, kings).
Outcome: Hero wins 14.50 BB.

Gone golfing ..see ya in the Fall of 2006
PS. What did the snail on the turtle's back say?
Wheeeeeeeee........

elipsesjeff

02-10-2006, 05:35 AM

#19 (permalink)

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Join Date: Jul 2004

Location: Northern Virginia

Posts: 4,900

I dont think those hands play too differently had you played them fast.

Check out my videos at Grinderschool.com

More Full Ring NLHE Cash videos than ANY other poker training site. Training starts at $10/month.

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