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Can I move up or grind it out some more. Need advice.

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pokerlearner

06-18-2005, 07:15 PM Post subject: Can I move up or grind it out some more. Need advice.

#1 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Feb 2005

Location: california

Posts: 366

Hi guys,
It seems like yesterday I was desperately seeking advice on how to play correct poker and now I am asking for advice if i can move up.

. I think of myself as a breakeven player and not a highly skilled advanced player but still want to know if its enough to make me go up the tier.

I have logged 21842 hands in Pokertracker exclusively from Party & affiliates solely on 0.5-1$ fixed. I know people have talked against $1-2 and would rather move to 2-4$ instead.

However, from what I see hands people posting in 2-4$ and the kind of advanced plays people make sometimes, i worry if i will be eaten alive in 2-4$.

My poker winnings over 21842 hands is 278$ ( + 1.27 BB/100) and my OVERALL bankroll (winnings + bonus whoring) is measly 678$.

Can I move up to 2-4$ or should grind out 0.5-1$ a few more months, take my bankroll up to say 1200$ and then wade in 2-4$.

Any advice is MUCHO appreciated.

------------------------------------
My stats:

Total Hands: 21842
VP$IP: 17.71 %
VP in frm sb: 29 %
Folded sb to steal: 83 %
Folded bb to steal: 73 %

W$wsf: 29 %

PFR: 8.31

-----------------------------------
Total Won: + 1.27 BB/100

Aggression Numbers:

Preflop: 0.73
Flop: 2.25
Turn: 2.79
River: 1.83
-------------------------------
Total Aggression: 1.4 (including preflo #) and 2.28 (excluding preflop #)

--------------

If you need more data or think the sample is small enough and i need to get a bigger sample and experience, please let me know too. Thanks again guys. You have converted this once losing fish to a better fish

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Nehmer

06-18-2005, 07:37 PM

#2 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Oct 2004

Location: Decatur, IL

Posts: 666

DO NOT move up to 2/4 with that bankroll....You should build up to at least $1200 before trying 2/4. I would suggest if you wanna move up, trying the Interpoker 1/2 game. It is very fishy and the $90 monthly bonus is pretty nice.

euphoricism

06-18-2005, 07:55 PM

#3 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005

Location: Your place or my place

Posts: 3,610

And you've still got some leaks to plug. 1.27bb/100 is kinda low. Definitely hold back on moving up.

Gatlin Dan

06-18-2005, 07:59 PM

#4 (permalink)

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Join Date: Nov 2004

Location: Wild Bill's Backyard

Posts: 504

With your bb/100 winrate at .5/1 you'll likely finding yourself only feeding the rake at 2/4. Being not bankrolled for it is that much more reason to hold off on moving up. More hands at .5/1 with lots of analysis is the best route. There has to be leaks in there somewhere. If you've spent a lot of time building your roll, you don't want to see it wiped out by moving up too quickly. It takes a lot more money toi play 2/4 than .5/1. I don't think many people would recommend moving up to levels when you have only half the bankroll needed. There's no reason to move up before your ready. Make sure you have the money to play at that level first and foremost. Only after that, should you consider whether or not you have enough skills to move up. Patience will be well rewarded.

pokerlearner

06-18-2005, 09:06 PM Post subject: thanks a lot guys

#5 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Feb 2005

Location: california

Posts: 366

thanks a lot guys for your quick response.

As advised by all of you, I will wait till i gather 1500$ for my bankroll. and then maybe post my stats for analysis again and hopefully I will have plugged my leaks further.

Meanwhile, I am off to the B&M 2-4$ game.

That is so much easier than party 0.5-1$. Maybe winning these B&M consistently (hopefully !!) will help me build the bankroll faster too.

euphoricism

06-18-2005, 10:25 PM

#6 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005

Location: Your place or my place

Posts: 3,610

Why is it that your winrate is so low? Those stats are pretty good!

Whats your goingtoshowdown percent?
And whats your win money when at showdown percent?

Could be you're playing properly preflop, but showing down second best (or even unimproved) hands

Nehmer

06-19-2005, 12:36 AM

#7 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Oct 2004

Location: Decatur, IL

Posts: 666

Quote:

Originally Posted by euphoricism

That isn't anywhere near enough hands to get an even remotely accurate measure of his true BB/100 at all. I've definately had runs of 20,000 cards where at the end my BB/100 was close to 4 and other runs of 20,000 cards where I basically just broke even with basically all of my other stats remaining fairly close to the same. Short term involves a lot of luck

euphoricism

06-19-2005, 04:21 AM

#8 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005

Location: Your place or my place

Posts: 3,610

very true

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pokerfanatic

06-19-2005, 04:41 AM

#9 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: 6max limit tables

Posts: 1,968

if you don't have 300bb then it's a clear no for that stake...

“Dream as if you’ll live forever. Live as if you’ll die today.” ~ James Dean ~

"Poker is a lot like sex, peoples perceived ability usually blinds the truth" ~ me ~

"God bless him. Got to bet big to win big! GAMB00L!!!" ~ Fnord

pokerlearner

06-19-2005, 05:56 AM

#10 (permalink)

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Join Date: Feb 2005

Location: california

Posts: 366

euphoricism, as requested the additional stats are:

Went to SD: 32.35%
Won$atSD: 53.3%

so its obvious, i have been showing a second best hand a lot often.

I am going to grind it out at 0.5-1$ until i get a bankroll of 1500$ and then look for leaks. No hurry here.

for the meanwhile, for higher stakes I wil just stick to local b&m.

Phyl

06-19-2005, 12:42 PM Post subject: Re: Can I move up or grind it out some more. Need advice.

#11 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: May 2005

Location: Texas

Posts: 396

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerlearner

I have logged 21842 hands in PokerTracker exclusively from Party & affiliates solely on 0.5-1$ fixed. I know people have talked against $1-2 and would rather move to 2-4$ instead.

However, from what I see hands people posting in 2-4$ and the kind of advanced plays people make sometimes, i worry if i will be eaten alive in 2-4$.

[/b]

I don't agree with 1/2 being significantly harder than 2/4. If 2/4 is easier it's to do with better game selection and lower rake, the opponents aren't worse.

It's true that 2/4 tables can be looser than 1/2 tables however the players are more aggressive and there are less rocks and more TAGs. That said I hate the 1/2 level and it's natural for everyone else to hate it.

Also the variance at 2/4 is worse so moving from a low variance game like 0.5/1 to stakes 4 times higher with greater variance is a bad idea for your sanity.

If I were you I'd take a shot at 1/2 but that's probably a bad idea. I recommend you play about 10k more hands, you can see if your winrate improves and it will increase your bankroll for when you do take a shot.

StinkyBeaver

06-19-2005, 12:57 PM

#12 (permalink)

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Join Date: Apr 2005

Location: Denmark

Posts: 275

So far I hate the 1/2 also, only thing keeping me in plus is my rakeback.

But until I have more hands I don't have a clue wether I can grind it out.

Certainly the players are better than 0,5/1 and they make wierd and tricky moves quite often.

jmontis

06-19-2005, 05:27 PM

#13 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Dec 2004

Posts: 1,296

stay away from 2-4, believe me. It is a high variance game, which is what you want, but you're roll can't stand to take the losing end of it. 1-2 at a low rake site would be a better choice

take your ego out of the equation and judge the situation dispassionately

Xanadu

06-19-2005, 09:15 PM

#14 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: May 2005

Location: st. paul, MO

Posts: 966

It sounds like you want to play 2/4, and you may or may not be ready for it, but you have to have the BR to play there. It is good to want to move up ... you won't learn how to make a good rate at 2/4 playing .50/1. It truly takes good competition to hone the skills. Seems to me your primary goal right now is building that roll up. Just like mine.

I have the funds to play 2/4, I just don't have it in my account, and prefer to just play with what I have. I currently play at paradise, and am looking to build enough to switch, as the higher low stakes are way tougher there than most other places. But, to my point. You don't have to be fully bankrolled for a stake if you are only playing it to increase your bankroll and use some discretion. I am bankrolled to play .25/.50 right now, and that happens to be the juiciest low limit holdem game on paradise. It's my main stay and I make 7 or 8 BB/hr/tbl. I make at least $10 an hour 3 tabling it. But I don't usually 3 table it ... I usually play 1 or 2 tables of that and look for some nice tables at higher stakes. Occassionally that's .50/1 holdem, but rarely. That stake at paradise is not easy enough money for buildin the roll. The tables typically have a 30% to see the flop. So what I do is play a table of 1/2 pineapple or 25NL, or 50PL omaha high or even 2/4 omaha hilo. The pineapple is always a sweet table, the others, I try to find a nice table, and if I do, I play it. This is a moderate risk/high reward play. With around $180 dollars right now, 2/4 or 50PL are insanely out of my roll. But I am disciplined enough that if I lose my $50, I don't take the shot till I make that $50 back at my mainstay, the .25/.50 holdem. I know I am good enough to beat the higher stakes tables I play, and that one buy in won't hurt me. I limit it to one buy in lost. But the possible benefits are huge ... 2 big hands at a fishy PL50 omaha table can net $200. The whole point is ... take the shot, if you can afford it, and if the table is ideal and you are SURE you are good enough to beat it.

So, don't be afraid to put up a single stake in a higher limit game for the purposes of building your roll under 2 conditions. First, you are absolutely sure you are better than the field. Second, you can absorb the hit and still be properly bankrolled for your normal game.

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Can I move up or grind it out some more. Need advice.

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