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calling button's raise when SB in

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Lance

02-08-2009, 02:56 PM Post subject: calling button's raise when SB in

#1 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Nov 2007

Posts: 210

button raises (first in), SB calls
i am on the BB....and hold something soooted, lets say T4s.

Should i call ?

Assume unknown players

Where is borderline T8s, T7s, K2s ???

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Chopper

02-08-2009, 04:51 PM

#2 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Location: St. Louis, MO

Posts: 4,255

another one that depends on YOUR game. and, your level, if you dont have reads.

if my players tend to pay off to the river, i make that overcall pretty lightly. 3-gappers, even some unsuited broadways like KQ, QJ. i even like to 3bet there if the BTN can fold on a steal and take out that stupid SB with post flop play. i dont see anything the SB could have being worth a call against a BTN steal. its a 3betting hand or a fold, imo. if he's that stupid, i may occasionally try to isolate his ass instead. (you can also use the btn to cap him out or raise the flop if aggro enough.)

if the game is tougher, i just fold all but stronger sc's, like 89-, and what i do play, i make sure i c/r the flop or raise sb's lead. and, i'm never bluffing there.

i dont like going below anything that is not connected. J7, Q8, etc. and, i dont take stuff that doesnt make stronger TP hands, unless its 1-gapped and sooooooted.

and, if you want to see a "wide" range, wait for Asd's response...lol. that will be rather wide i bet.

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

DrivingDog

02-08-2009, 05:03 PM

#3 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jul 2007

Location: UK

Posts: 923

It depends a lot on how well they play and how wide their ranges are, but against unknowns i'd be in with any two broadways, any Axs, Kxs, Qxs, or Jxs, and soooted connectors down to about 65s.

"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).

Lance

02-08-2009, 06:46 PM

#4 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Nov 2007

Posts: 210

this have to be my another leak...i normally call with A5o, K9o, 86s
etc....Would you call with A9o down to A5o ?

Similar situations on the BB where i am not fully sure what to do...
1. CO raises, button calls, SB folds and you have a)b)c)
2. Button raises, SB folds and you have a)b)c)

a) A8o
b) KTs
c) 55

I dont know why but for me it doesn't matter if villain is 26/19/2.2 or 48/10/0.9. It seems to me, that is more about pot odds then about image of the player (in case of calling).

DrivingDog

02-08-2009, 07:51 PM

#5 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jul 2007

Location: UK

Posts: 923

Keep in mind my opposition is 3/6 and up but...

1)
a) fold; b) call; c) call

2)
a, b, c) either raise or call depending on opponent

The problem with weak Aces multiway is they only usually get action they don't want. E.g., it's raised and cold called behind you and you have A8o. Looks tempting, but if you play the three most likely outcomes are: 1) You whiff the flop and have to fold to a c-bet; 2) You hit an Ace where either everyone else folds or someone has you dominated with a better kicker; 3) you hit an eight and don't know where you're at.

HU a weak Ace is better because you can win a SD UI. Not likely to happen MW.

You're right to be concerned about pot odds, but assigning your opponents a range based on their stats and adjusting your standards accordingly is the best way to deal with the issue. A pfr of 19 is a lot different than a pfr of 10, for example. The former is more 'standard' and can open with a fairly wide range, especially from late position. The latter is tight, and so domination becomes more of a concern.

I suggest fooling around with pokerstove to see what kinds of hands various ranges represent. If it's going to be HU (i.e., if someone raises and everyone else folds to you in the BB) a good rule of thumb is to call with any hand that has 35% equity vs. their range (according to Stox). Others like Doughnutz would go even lower. You can also raise or lower it depending on your opinion of your skill relative to your opponent - if you think you have a big edge, you can profitably call with just about anything.

"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).

Chopper

02-08-2009, 08:34 PM

#6 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Location: St. Louis, MO

Posts: 4,255

i'm clearly no expert here, and because of the levels i play, i tighten up significantly because they DONT RAISE post flop enough. so, i often dump money into a pot where i "should" be ahead, based on action, but find crazy-strong hands that never told me to back off the gas.

adding to Dog, 3way pots SUCK. i avoid them without something suited and strong, or something that reaps implied odds from stations/aggros alike. oop, SUCKS, and thats where you find yourself in the BB.

pot odds are great preflop, but POSTflop is where the money is. and, a wider ranged stealer plays a much different range than a nit on the button. adjust accordingly because pot odds dont do much if you wind up dominated the rest of the way. sometimes A8o is ahead of that range, a lot of times it isnt.....know when it is and isnt and adjust to the player. in other words, i would place more importance on the btn and sb than the immediate odds offered to join in because that will be vastly different by the turn most times.

therefore, its more of a 3bet or fold situation for me once it goes multiway. and, a good bit depends on the SB, too. if hes a station, which this situation usually leads to, i will also tighten up significantly. that station in the middle will do nothing but fuck everything up and keep you in very tough spots. the play is bad enough in favorable spots, you should just focus on those, imo.

this is all coming from a 25/50c and 50/1 level, and the occasional 1/2 now when i can find the games soft enough that i feel i have a good edge.

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

Fnord

02-09-2009, 06:10 AM

#7 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,333

Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

I'm calling just about anything suited and lots of other crap here too.

SB made a pretty big mistake letting you in unless he's only doing with AA/KK and a rare other hand to balance. In reality, he probably sucks, has a weak hand and doesn't know any better.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

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