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The call, 3-bet play...

  
 
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Nehmer
Old 08-02-2005, 01:43 AM     Post subject: The call, 3-bet play... #1 (permalink)  
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Nehmer
Here is something I find myself doing quite often even though I think it is a bad play. My question is, how is the best way to play these types of situations? My reasoning for calling the flop was that I had a strong hand and was hoping the other guy would call and then I could raise the turn. When the guy after me raised, I then decide that maybe I should just raise now and build the pot up a lot so both players will be invested too much to fold on the turn or river. Should I be calling the flop raise and check-raising the turn? Should I be raising the flop just right away? The converter is saying page not found right now, so I'll just post it regular style and edit later.

***** Hand History for Game 2462418747 *****
$3/$6 Texas Hold'em - Monday, August 01, 21:25:45 EDT 2005
Table Table 32718 (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: blocprty ( $209 )
Seat 2: MUSSO22 ( $1164.17 )
Seat 4: JMTBerserk ( $46.50 )
Seat 6: TheZiggster ( $183.50 )
Seat 9: cy311 ( $264 )
Seat 10: JNolan ( $82.50 )
Seat 7: gstant ( $95 )
Seat 3: VEGASLAKERS ( $356.50 )
Seat 8: payUPbiotch ( $47 )
Seat 5: mrodman59 ( $125.50 )
mrodman59 posts small blind [$1].
TheZiggster posts big blind [$3].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to TheZiggster [ 4c Ah ]
gstant folds.
payUPbiotch folds.
>You have options at Table 36514 Table!.
cy311 folds.
JNolan folds.
blocprty calls [$3].
MUSSO22 folds.
VEGASLAKERS calls [$3].
JMTBerserk folds.
mrodman59 calls [$2].
TheZiggster checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ Ts, 4h, 4s ]
mrodman59 bets [$3].
TheZiggster calls [$3].
blocprty folds.
VEGASLAKERS raises [$6].
mrodman59 calls [$3].
TheZiggster raises [$6].
VEGASLAKERS calls [$3].
>You have options at Table 32583 Table!.
mrodman59 calls [$3].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 5h ]
mrodman59 checks.
TheZiggster bets [$6].
VEGASLAKERS calls [$6].
>You have options at Table 36514 Table!.
mrodman59 calls [$6].
** Dealing River ** [ 8c ]
mrodman59 checks.
>You have options at Table 36514 Table!.
TheZiggster bets [$6].
>You have options at Table 36514 Table!.
>You have options at Table 36514 Table!.
VEGASLAKERS calls [$6].
mrodman59 calls [$6].
TheZiggster shows [ 4c, Ah ] three of a kind, fours.
VEGASLAKERS doesn't show [ Jh, 4d ] three of a kind, fours.
mrodman59 doesn't show [ Td, Ks ] two pairs, tens and fours.
TheZiggster wins $72 from the main pot with three of a kind, fours with ace kicker.
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Fnord
Old 08-02-2005, 03:09 AM #2 (permalink)  
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They both paid you off...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Trikflow77
Old 08-02-2005, 08:18 AM #3 (permalink)  
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with a flush draw on the flop id pop it.... a flush draw will come along for the ride.
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thenonsequitur
Old 08-02-2005, 01:10 PM     Post subject: Re: The call, 3-bet play... #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nehmer
Here is something I find myself doing quite often even though I think it is a bad play.
Why do you think it's a bad play?

Even in the example you posted, it didn't go badly, and it often goes very well (much better than an attempt at a turn trap).

When it makes the other two players slow down on the turn, you've still won the equivalent of 1 extra big bet. You're turn trap would have to earn you 2 extra big bets to make it more valuable, and often you will lose a player on the turn, so the turn trap will often only win you 1 extra bet anyway.

Add this to the item that you pointed out--if you pump it now, you may entice callers to stay in the pot on the turn and river, and this play could easily win you even more bets.

Also, you may be up against a good hand that will sometimes cap the flop (like AT), and the third player will usually call...in this scenario you earn the equivalent of 2 extra big bets on the flop alone (and might win still more on the turn).

And as trikflow77 pointed out...if there is a clear draw on board, this play becomes even more profitable.


EDIT: I play lower stakes than you, so my thoughts may not apply.
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Fnord
Old 08-02-2005, 01:14 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Also, consider that the flop 3-bet gives his opponents the maximum chance of playing back at him with a worse hand.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Shark Bait
Old 08-02-2005, 08:18 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Shark Bait
I see people doing the call/3 bet preflop sometimes. I don't know what they're thinking.
<a500lbgorilla> Limit is poker with training wheels!
 
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Fnord
Old 08-02-2005, 08:42 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shark Bait
I see people doing the call/3 bet preflop sometimes. I don't know what they're thinking.
GAMB00L!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Nehmer
Old 08-02-2005, 08:55 PM     Post subject: Re: The call, 3-bet play... #8 (permalink)  
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Nehmer
Quote:
Originally Posted by thenonsequitur
Why do you think it's a bad play?
I typically only see complete idiots use this play except for the occasional time that I use it. I tend to think that if I'm doing something that I see the worst players at a table do more than anybody else, there is a good reason that I shouldn't be doing it I just don't seem to know what the good reason is for this play.
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