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LeFou
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10-27-2005, 10:23 PM
Post subject: c-betting sucks
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 2,361
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Okay, every #$%%^ing time I c-bet at 1/2 I'm getting checkraised. Usually on the turn.
In the spirit of another thread: Why are We C-Betting? Since everyone and their dog thinks the slowplay is the Mother of All Strategies (I mean the slowplay of bottom pair, etc.) I'm thinking of just checking along until I've got a monster. This strat is born of frustration, of course, but what do you think?
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Keep pounding.
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STIdrivr
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern california
Posts: 580
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you cant c-bet everytime or they will catch on, try to only use it with 1 other person in the pot. try not to c-bet if there are draws on board because they can call with a draw which defeats the purpose.
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StinkyBeaver
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Denmark
Posts: 275
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I'm having trouble with this also.....
Seems like you gotta play loads of attention to the table texture. Ever since I jumped to party 3/6 SH games I've done some pretty good table selection as well. Never the less if you have two call stations seeing the flop that'll relly decrease the value of your continueation bets.
These players are either smart enough to know that most ragged flops haven't hit you or they are stupid enough calling with any two since the flop is only one more small bet.
So I've tuned down my aggression a notch since it's pretty obvious that on most of these tables I will get loads of action when I have a genuine hand.
Also preflop I'm still looking into which players you should try and steal with a lot of hands and which one you should be more selective.
Say you have one donk playin 50/6 and passive player playing 30/8 on your left, that really makes stealing a bit more difficult since theres a good chance both player call here and what you really want is to get HU.
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outphase
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 949
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Without any reads, if I raised preflop and get one caller, i'm throwing out the bet to attempt to take the pot at the flop. If I don't improve on the turn, I stop... just not worth 1BB.
Ideally, this is what I prefer 
PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx
Preflop: Hero is MP2 with T , A .
4 folds, Hero raises, 3 folds, SB calls, 1 fold.
Flop: (5 SB) Q, 8, 4 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB folds.
Final Pot: 3 BB
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by lambchopdc
Lets stop talking ABC poker and move on to D, E, and F.
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Demiparadigm
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Party 6 max
Posts: 1,602
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Who wins when you both miss the flop?
Why?
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To win in poker you only need to be one step ahead of your opponents. Two steps may be detrimental.
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STIdrivr
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Southern california
Posts: 580
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i would not c-bet too much playing limit. i only play NL though.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Demiparadigm
Who wins when you both miss the flop?
Why?
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Whoever bets...
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silverfist
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 341
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I like to c-bet if I was the pre-flop raiser. I look at it this way: if there's 8 SBs in the pot and I take it down 1 time in 9, I'm breaking even. I also find that c-betting disguises my hand, since if people know I'm going to do it, they haven't got any idea what I've got.
I know this is counter to most people's theories, but I basically always c-bet unless there's a 3-flush out there.
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Discuss Plato, Aristotle and Aquinas at The Lyceum
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rubixstreub
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 887
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The only time it seems to work for me is with one limper early or in MP, I raise from LP and get it heads up, they check it to me and I fire. If they call I do it again on the turn if it's checked to me.
With 2-3 people, only when it's check around to me and I'm last to act.
The worst time is when you pick up a non-paired premium hand in the blinds, 4 or so limpers call your raise and you're first to act on a ragged board with no draws. That never works.
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LeFou
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 2,361
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Two excellent points above to summarize:
1. Who you're c-betting makes a difference. Don't keep to it to the guy who checkraises you.
2. (silver's point) It doesn't have to work every time, or even a majority. HU it pretty much needs to since you're betting 1 into a pot of 2.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by LeFou
2. (silver's point) It doesn't have to work every time, or even a majority. HU it pretty much needs to since you're betting 1 into a pot of 2.
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This is the most important point. That being said, there are spots to take the free card and my continuation betting a lot I often get the chance.
For example:
2 limpers
I raise 44 from the CO
Blinds refuse to fold.
Flop is 3 cards without a 4 and it's checked to me.
Another example:
2 limpers with 30%ish VP$IP and can get aggro post-flop.
I raise A Q from the CO.
Blinds fold.
Flop is J T 5 and it's checked to me.
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StinkyBeaver
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Denmark
Posts: 275
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Another example:
2 limpers with 30%ish VP$IP and can get aggro post-flop.
I raise A Q from the CO.
Blinds fold.
Flop is J T 5 and it's checked to me. |
Seems like flops containing two or more midcards have low FE for a c-bet unless HU. If two players call preflop theres a good chance this hits one or one of them has two overcards like us and will peel and see a turn.
I get this a lot in 5/6 handed games and after reading a section in weighing the odds, claiming that stealing with lots of hands preflop is less valuable should SB be a bad player that calls more than he reraises or folds thus giving BB fairly good odds to call aswell.
I steal with lots in SH games and from the button it's almost any ace and K5 and up. These hands plays ok HU, but I hate playing these when the above happens and I don't hit. Since These hands are a preflop favorite against two randoms and I have position I don't mind the raise, but I don't always c-bet these anymore. Thoughts..?
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LeFou
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 2,361
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
2 limpers with 30%ish VP$IP and can get aggro post-flop.
I raise A Q from the CO.
Blinds fold.
Flop is J T 5 and it's checked to me. |
Do you basically disregard you overcard outs here -- b/c of the J & T onboard? I'm seeing so much good stuff on that flop that I'm betting it around 2/3 the time if checked to me... Haven't checked, but I think I bet this stuff a lot.
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
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I've always been a big fan of continuation bets, moreso than other people on the forum.. You just need to know when to give up and fold.
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KoRnholio
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,165
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I will almost always throw out a continuation bet if there's any chance I can take it down right there. Unless the board is uber scary and/or there's 3+ people seeing the flop.
I've also learned to tone down my cbet % when I am out of position. That used to cost me a LOT of bets with AK/AQ.
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Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by LeFou
Do you basically disregard you overcard outs here -- b/c of the J & T onboard? I'm seeing so much good stuff on that flop that I'm betting it around 2/3 the time if checked to me... Haven't checked, but I think I bet this stuff a lot.
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Unless my opponents are retarded, that flop likely hit them too. Also, I have enough equity to call a raise, but I'm certainly behind when I do. If my opponents will check check/call it's an easy bet intending to check behind the turn unimproved and play a river. If they check/raise the flop you should exploit this by taking the freebie here.
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