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Fnord

10-03-2004, 11:18 AM Post subject: The butcher shop...

#1 (permalink)

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Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Fnord is MP3 with J

, K

.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, Fnord raises, CO folds, Button folds, SB calls, BB 3-bets, UTG+1 calls, MP2 folds, Fnord calls, SB calls.

Flop: (13 SB) T

, 5

, 9

(4 players)
SB checks, BB bets, UTG+1 folds, Fnord calls, SB folds.

Turn: (7.50 BB) 8

(2 players)
BB bets, Fnord raises, BB 3-bets, Fnord calls.

River: (13.50 BB) Q

(2 players)
BB bets, Fnord calls.

Final Pot: 15.50 BB

Results in white below:
BB has Qh Ah (flush, ace high).
Fnord has Js Kc (straight, king high).
Outcome: BB wins 15.50 BB.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Fnord is MP2 with T

, Q

.
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, Fnord raises, CO 3-bets, Button folds, SB caps, BB folds, UTG calls, MP1 calls, Fnord calls, CO calls.

Flop: (21 SB) 2

, 7

, 8

(5 players)
SB bets, UTG folds, MP1 calls, Fnord calls, CO calls.

Turn: (12.50 BB) 9

(4 players)
SB bets, MP1 calls, Fnord calls, CO calls.

River: (16.50 BB) A

(4 players)
SB bets, MP1 calls, Fnord folds, CO calls.

Final Pot: 19.50 BB

Results in white below:
MP1 has Ks 9d (one pair, nines).
CO has Qd Qh (one pair, queens).
SB has Ah As (three of a kind, aces).
Outcome: SB wins 19.50 BB.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Fnord is MP2 with A

, Q

.
UTG raises, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, Fnord 3-bets, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 5

, J

, 2

(2 players)
UTG checks, Fnord bets, UTG calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) 9

(2 players)
UTG checks, Fnord bets, UTG calls.

River: (6.75 BB) 6

(2 players)
UTG checks, Fnord checks.

Final Pot: 6.75 BB

Results in white below:
UTG has 8d 8h (one pair, eights).
Fnord has Ah Qd (high card, ace).
Outcome: UTG wins 6.75 BB.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Fnord is UTG+1 with 8

, 8

.
UTG folds, Fnord calls, MP1 raises, MP2 calls, CO folds, Button 3-bets, SB folds, BB calls, Fnord calls, MP1 caps, MP2 calls, Button calls, BB calls, Fnord calls.

Flop: (20.50 SB) T

, 5

, 4

(5 players)
BB checks, Fnord checks, MP1 bets, MP2 calls, Button calls, BB calls, Fnord calls.

Turn: (12.75 BB) 2

(5 players)
BB checks, Fnord checks, MP1 bets, MP2 calls, Button folds, BB calls, Fnord folds.

River: (15.75 BB) 6

(3 players)
BB checks, MP1 bets, MP2 raises, BB folds, MP1 3-bets, MP2 caps, MP1 calls $1 (All-In).

Final Pot: 23 BB

Results in white below:
MP1 has Qs Ah (high card, ace).
MP2 has 8h 7c (straight, eight high).
Outcome: MP2 wins 23 BB.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

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10-03-2004, 11:19 AM

#2 (permalink)

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Fnord

10-03-2004, 11:25 AM

#3 (permalink)

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I think I butchered all of these hands pretty badly. Curious what others think.

Then again a ~10% PFR tends to get you into some interesting spots...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Humphrind

10-03-2004, 01:40 PM

#4 (permalink)

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Location: Kansas City

Posts: 1,887

Hands 1 & 2 I think the turn play is the big error.

Hand 3 - In hindsight, do you think betting the river would have won you the pot? In your position, I can understand the check, but I can't see the river completing anything. Maybe a raise was in order.

Hand 4 - Call w/ pocket 8s pre-flop. Then call 2 more bets, then call a cap. If you did anything different it would be calling the 3-bet. The flop and turn were fine.

I don't know what they have to say
It makes no difference anyway.
Whatever it is...
I'm against it.

Fnord

10-03-2004, 01:59 PM

#5 (permalink)

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Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Humphrind

Hands 1 & 2 I think the turn play is the big error.

5-way capped pots force you to make lots of funny calls. In hand 2, I have 4 nut gutshot outs. Easy call.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Humphrind

Hand 3 - In hindsight, do you think betting the river would have won you the pot?

AK maybe folds, any pocket pair calls. AJ calls. I'm pretty f'd from pre-flop on. I'd rather check and hope he has something silly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Humphrind

Hand 4 - Call w/ pocket 8s pre-flop. Then call 2 more bets, then call a cap. If you did anything different it would be calling the 3-bet. The flop and turn were fine.

Exactly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Humphrind

10-03-2004, 02:37 PM

#6 (permalink)

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Location: Kansas City

Posts: 1,887

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

In hand 2, I have 4 nut gutshot outs. Easy call.

You put "nut" in bold. But I would have put "gutshot" in bold.

I don't know what they have to say
It makes no difference anyway.
Whatever it is...
I'm against it.

Fnord

10-03-2004, 03:19 PM

#7 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,333

Quote:

Originally Posted by Humphrind

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

In hand 2, I have 4 nut gutshot outs. Easy call.

You put "nut" in bold. But I would have put "gutshot" in bold.

Because a nut gutshot on the turn isn't that common. Usually at least one of your outs is dirty via a possible flush or you have a larger risk of a split pot. With over 12BB in the pot folding would be a mistake.

-=In retrospect=-

pre-flop: call, fold if it's 2 more back to me.
flop: fold, CO is likely to raise.
blah....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

jmrogers7

10-04-2004, 04:16 PM

#8 (permalink)

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Join Date: Feb 2004

Posts: 1,112

Fnord - Curious. Do you always call a bet on the flop if you haven't hit but have 2 overs to the board? Just wondering. There was a flush fdraw on the flop in Hand #1, although Hand #2 seemed like a pretty safe call.

Hand #1 - Check or Fold on the turn.

Hand #2 - Not crazy about raising up QTs preflop. After that, don't mind calling down to the river on this one though. Any 6 (although not the nuts) or J (the nuts) makes your hand and I would probably feel fairly comfortable if a Q falls as well (although seeing the results a Q would not have been good).

Hand #3 - Again, I'm not one for 3-betting AQo pre-flop so I don't care for that move. I like you taking a stab at the pot on the flop. Don't like the bet on the turn unless the flush draw didn't hit.

Hand #4 - Terrible. I'm not calling 1-bet UTG+1, let alone calling a 3-bet and a cap pre-flop. IMHO you wasted 4 bets on that hand.

"The urge to gamble is so universal and it's practice is so pleasurable, that I assume it must be evil." - Heywood Broun

Fnord

10-04-2004, 05:30 PM

#9 (permalink)

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Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,333

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmrogers7

I depends

When the pot is big, I can be a little stubborn.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmrogers7

Hand #1 - Check or Fold on the turn.

A call isn't that bad.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmrogers7

Hand #2 - Not crazy about raising up QTs preflop. After that, don't mind calling down to the river on this one though. Any 6 (although not the nuts) or J (the nuts) makes your hand and I would probably feel fairly comfortable if a Q falls as well (although seeing the results a Q would not have been good).

QTs was too thin to raise there. From there I was in trouble.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmrogers7

Hand #3 - Again, I'm not one for 3-betting AQo pre-flop so I don't care for that move. I like you taking a stab at the pot on the flop. Don't like the bet on the turn unless the flush draw didn't hit.

We're heads-up to the flop. Worrying about the flush draw here is just plain silly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmrogers7

Hand #4 - Terrible. I'm not calling 1-bet UTG+1, let alone calling a 3-bet and a cap pre-flop. IMHO you wasted 4 bets on that hand.

I have mixed feelings on this. Limp at fishy table is the right EP move. When it's 2 back to me, I'm getting 6:1 immediate odds on my call with the risk of a re-raise. Anyway, 5 to a capped flop w/ 88 is far from a wasted bet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

maxxscam

10-04-2004, 09:21 PM

#10 (permalink)

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Join Date: Apr 2004

Posts: 734

fnord you say you butchered these hands, then people ive you advice on what you did wrong you say you played it right... I dont get that

The Real Chris Moneymaker
www.sonpokeher.com

Fnord

10-04-2004, 09:42 PM

#11 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxscam

fnord you say you butchered these hands, then people ive you advice on what you did wrong you say you played it right... I dont get that

I misplayed some streets and made the best out of others.

In retrospect...

Hand 1
pf: Limp
flop: Fold in a smaller pot
Turn: Call
River: Raise/Call

Hand 2
pf: Call, fold when it's 2 back to me.

Hand 3
pf: Fold! (unless UTG is 10%+ PFR)

Hand 4
pf: Mixed feelings. It's a sucky spot, but it's tough to justify dumping 8s for 2 more SB.
flop: same
turn: same

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

jmrogers7

10-05-2004, 01:10 PM

#12 (permalink)

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Join Date: Feb 2004

Posts: 1,112

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxscam

fnord you say you butchered these hands, then people ive you advice on what you did wrong you say you played it right... I dont get that

I have to agree with maxx on this one. Fnord, you're a tough one to figure out. When you post hands you are looking for either advice on how someone else might have played these hands or commentary on your play. Either way, you are opening yourself up to criticism.

When you get commentary, you proceed to justify why you played the way you did. I dunno. You are always quick to dish out criticism of how people who post hands play them. But you seem to get defensive when your play is criticized. Almost makes it not worth bothering to respond with hand analysis on hands that you post.

"The urge to gamble is so universal and it's practice is so pleasurable, that I assume it must be evil." - Heywood Broun

Fnord

10-05-2004, 02:00 PM

#13 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by jmrogers7

I have to agree with maxx on this one. Fnord, you're a tough one to figure out.

Funny that someone with that attribute would choose to play poker...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

jmrogers7

10-05-2004, 02:02 PM

#14 (permalink)

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Join Date: Feb 2004

Posts: 1,112

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmrogers7

I have to agree with maxx on this one. Fnord, you're a tough one to figure out.

Funny that someone with that attribute would choose to play poker...

Way to skate the topic.

"The urge to gamble is so universal and it's practice is so pleasurable, that I assume it must be evil." - Heywood Broun

Humphrind

10-05-2004, 02:25 PM

#15 (permalink)

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Join Date: May 2004

Location: Kansas City

Posts: 1,887

I'm agreeing with maxx also. Looking at all your replies you keep defending you play. But you clearly thought your play was wrong originally.

I don't know what they have to say
It makes no difference anyway.
Whatever it is...
I'm against it.

lonnie

10-05-2004, 03:45 PM

#16 (permalink)

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Join Date: Aug 2004

Posts: 923

No offense - but if I see someone making those plays in a game I'm licking my chops. Looks like maniac play with mediocre hands. Playing like that, you are bound to pay me off when I make a big hand.

Fnord

10-05-2004, 08:32 PM

#17 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by lhoney2

No offense - but if I see someone making those plays in a game I'm licking my chops. Looks like maniac play with mediocre hands. Playing like that, you are bound to pay me off when I make a big hand.

o Remember that I'm at ~18% VP$IP. I'm not making these plays often and playing few enough hands (usually with position) that it takes players some time to figure out what I'm up to.

o This isn't NL, hence the pay-off for a trap isn't as large.

o I put pressure on you to either make a hand or call me down. We all catch second best sometimes. I want to get paid more often when I have the goods and collect more than my fair share of pots when everyone is pretty much bust.

o That being said, aggression is a balancing act. Most people aren't aggressive enough. In the process of finding the right mix (which can also be opponent driven), I sometimes make the opposite mistake. But it's not a worse mistake.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

jmrogers7

10-06-2004, 03:51 AM

#18 (permalink)

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Join Date: Feb 2004

Posts: 1,112

OK, so I'll ask again. Is this just a post where you sought to have people critique your play so that you could give us a dissertation on "The World According to Fnord"? I'm confused. You post hand histories, get a little constructive criticism and then turn into Dr. Defensive.

"The urge to gamble is so universal and it's practice is so pleasurable, that I assume it must be evil." - Heywood Broun

Fnord

10-06-2004, 07:23 AM

#19 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by jmrogers7

I posted what I did. Several players replied with what they thought. I replied with what I thought I should have done, was unsure and where I disagreed with the posters. What's wrong here?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

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