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Bottom set against predictable villain (PLO)

  
 
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KoRnholio
Old 02-14-2007, 07:38 PM     Post subject: Bottom set against predictable villain (PLO) #1 (permalink)  
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 Reads: SB is quite loose and passive and has slowplayed or tried to trap with big hands multiple times in previous sessions.

MP2 is kind of loose and seems to take one off on the flop a lot almost regardless of his holding as long as he is in position.

Cryptologic 0.50/1.00 PLO (10 handed) link

MP2 ($200.50)
MP3 ($53.50)
CO ($82.25)
Button ($7.50)
SB ($47.50)
BB ($178.00)
UTG ($92.00)
UTG+1 ($39.50)
UTG+2 ($100.50)
Hero ($111.00)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 8, 3, 3, 8.
1 folds, UTG+1 calls, 1 folds, Hero calls, MP2 calls, 3 folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (10.00 SB) 8, J, K (5 players)
SB bets $5, BB folds, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (20.00 BB) K (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP2 checks.

River: (20.00 BB) T (3 players)
SB bets $10, Hero folds, MP2 calls.

Final Pot: $40.
Results in white below:
SB has 4c 7d Ks Js(A Full House, Kings full of Jacks)
SB wins $40.


The way the hand went, the only hand that the SB could possibly bet (into 2 players on a scary board) that I am beating is AQxx. He seems smart/passive enough to not bet that on the river though. I felt about 75% certain that he had KT or KJ here, largely based on his trappy plays previously.

Just another example where a bet on the turn would have cost me either slightly more than it should have or a lot, since it's possible the SB would have check-called the turn and bet the river.

Had the SB checked the river, I would have bet $5-6 myself to bring along any straights or AKxx-like trips hands that want to look me up.
Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
 
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bigspenda73
Old 02-14-2007, 11:07 PM #2 (permalink)  
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 Bottom set sucks is all I know.

Is 8833 really that playable in a multiway pot in Omaha?

FWIW, Im trying to learn the game a bit.
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KoRnholio
Old 02-14-2007, 11:47 PM #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
Is 8833 really that playable in a multiway pot in Omaha?
Barely.

The good news about a hand like 8833:
- You will flop a set quite often. I suck at probability math, so let's just say a little less than twice as often as a single pair (7.5:1) so approximately 4:1 (one time in 5).
- Against bad opponents who will play 2 pair predictably and/or badly (often it's a bet and then check/call, check/call against pretty strong bets) it can be quite profitable.

The bad news...

- 33 is always going to make a trouble set, and 88 will rarely be top set.
- Flopping a set doesn't equal usually winning the pot like in hold'em since by the turn or river there will usually be a flush or straight out there.
- getting pinned under a higher set/pushed off your set by a big draw/being outdrawn by 2 pair turned bigger boat is nasty.

It's better to play a hand like this in a shorthanded pot, but raising after a limper is a little too frisky for me. I will dump this in EP always. The key is probably being able to read opponents well and be able to limit losses/maximize wins when you do hit.
Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
 
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Galapogos
Old 02-23-2007, 12:01 AM #4 (permalink)  
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 Lately I've been thinking this would be a flop fold. Too weak? I would fear any number of draws getting there by the river or high sets already being there. If the turn and river bring low blanks and SB continues firing would you continue calling?


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KoRnholio
Old 02-23-2007, 12:09 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galapogos
Lately I've been thinking this would be a flop fold. Too weak? I would fear any number of draws getting there by the river or high sets already being there. If the turn and river bring low blanks and SB continues firing would you continue calling?
Being in position helps a lot. Out of position with the same hand sometimes I fold, sometimes check-call and see what villain does on the turn.

If the turn bricks and this villain bets, I call. If he fires a meaningful sized bet again on a river brick, then I will often fold. Some players will go nuts with 2 pair on all streets, but they are few and far between.
Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
 
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Fnord
Old 02-25-2007, 10:27 AM #6 (permalink)  
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I like folding the flop.

Fail that, I like betting out on the turn.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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spino1i
Old 04-07-2007, 07:40 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galapogos
Lately I've been thinking this would be a flop fold. Too weak? I would fear any number of draws getting there by the river or high sets already being there. If the turn and river bring low blanks and SB continues firing would you continue calling?
Folding flop here is criminal. Notice hero was ahead on the flop and got outdraw on the turn.
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KoRnholio
Old 04-07-2007, 09:04 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spino1i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galapogos
Lately I've been thinking this would be a flop fold. Too weak? I would fear any number of draws getting there by the river or high sets already being there. If the turn and river bring low blanks and SB continues firing would you continue calling?
Folding flop here is criminal. Notice hero was ahead on the flop and got outdraw on the turn.
Folding sets is an important skill in PLO, but I agree that folding here for a single bet when in position against a passive player is somewhat criminal.
Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
 
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salsa4ever
Old 04-08-2007, 01:06 AM #9 (permalink)  
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surely if you're going to play this pre flop you would raise the flop for the pot and protect your hand. It's a shitty half pot bet, and there's just no point letting straight draws and flush draows come along for the ride. And you'll probably get reraised by a bigger set so you can lay it down there.

I'm personally bad at playing small sets so I tend to fold these hands preflop in preference of gappy straight type hands, which objectively aren't much stronger but I tend to play well
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KoRnholio
Old 04-08-2007, 09:01 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by salsa4ever
surely if you're going to play this pre flop you would raise the flop for the pot and protect your hand. It's a shitty half pot bet, and there's just no point letting straight draws and flush draows come along for the ride. And you'll probably get reraised by a bigger set so you can lay it down there.
Playing bottom set in PLO is a lot like playing a small pair preflop in NL Hold'em. You want to try to avoid getting it all in as a small favorite/big dog. On such a draw-heavy board like this, getting 3bet big by a big draw is a major concern, so it's a good idea to keep the pot small and see what the turn brings before we commit more money.
Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
 
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