www.flopturnriver.com

Poker Forum

Over 1,246,000 Posts!

Already Registered? Username: Password: Remember Forgot Password
Tweet

Blufing in 6max

LinkBack

Thread Tools

Display Modes

euphoricism

03-24-2006, 09:22 PM Post subject: Blufing in 6max

#1 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005

Location: Your place or my place

Posts: 3,610

Quote:

Quote:
because you have to bluff in 6max

Actually you should bluff LESS in 6-max.

People sitting at a 6-max table expects to be faceing bluffs and moves all the time. This makes bluffing a lot less profitable, and value/overbetting a lot more profitable... so overbet more, bluff less.

This is laeelins reply to someone over in the beginners circle. Theyre talking NL, but I think its a pretty valid point to our LHE 6max games We obviously cannot overbet -- but we can value bet to hell. I see this as a particularly important aspect in blind steal/defense situations (which I believe are my weakest points).

Thoughts?

<Staxalax> Honestly, #flopturnriver is the one thing that has improved my game the most.
Directions to join the #flopturnriver Internet Relay Chat - Come chat with us!

Play for FREE and practice your game at...

Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!

midas06

03-24-2006, 11:13 PM

#2 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: NZ

Posts: 2,196

I'm trying to almost completely lose my pure bluffs at the moment, as pretty much everyone will look you up. Value bets ftw

euphoricism

03-25-2006, 12:17 AM

#3 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005

Location: Your place or my place

Posts: 3,610

Ok...

So you hold K

Folded to you on the buttton
You raise
SB Folds
BB Calls

Flop J87 rainbow
He checks, you bet
Turns a brick
He checks

Ok, so now what? This is the stuff that gets me screwed. If I check here, I've pretty much given up the hand as he'll bet pretty much any two on the river and I can't call.

Thats where my blind defense / blind stealing sucks.

<Staxalax> Honestly, #flopturnriver is the one thing that has improved my game the most.
Directions to join the #flopturnriver Internet Relay Chat - Come chat with us!

saxdaddy

03-25-2006, 12:26 AM

#4 (permalink)

Join Date: Sep 2005

Posts: 37

I see alot of flop continuation bets and then it gets checked down to the river. I will do this with overcards. If he bets the river you should prob fold since good odds he has something and u dont. Give it up and wait for a better hand. If u want to mix it up, bet 50% of the time and don't bet 50% of the time and see how it goes. Or check and call 50% of the time. IMHO.

"Caution: Cape does not enable user to fly."
-Batman costume warning label

Ltrain

03-27-2006, 03:09 PM

#5 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Aug 2005

Location: Miami, Florida

Posts: 514

It depends on the BB since many players call the flop almost automatically. Against a straight player, I will bet the turn most of the time. Against tricky or unpredictable players, I will check the turn and save the bet to possibly call a river bet.

"Don't judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes. Then you are a mile away, and have his shoes." - Anon.

chardrian

03-27-2006, 05:47 PM

#6 (permalink)

I rarely,if ever, get pms

Join Date: Apr 2005

Posts: 4,524

Against guys that constantly defend every BB and call check/call every flop after that, I have become more inclined to simply check flops that miss me and bet turns that get checked again.

Then again, the raise preflop, bet flop, check turn is still a very common line. The new fun part of the game for me is making those good calls on the river with Q or K high against opps that defend any blind and call any flop and have clearly been stealing pots on the river when I show weakness on the turn.

http://chardrian.blogspot.com
come check out my training videos at pokerpwnage.com

euphoricism

03-27-2006, 06:23 PM

#7 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005

Location: Your place or my place

Posts: 3,610

Ew char, eww.

Checking behind on the flop SCREAMS weak. If you check behind on the flop I'm betting into you on the turn with practically any two. If the guys a chronic flop c/r'r, then checking behind on the flop can really throw him for a loop, but if he just check/calls the flop with air, make him! Re-evaluate on the turn. Against people who often defend, check through the turn and auto-call the river with holdings as weak as ace-high a few times, and theyll back off you.

Calling down Q or King high on the river will never, ever, ever be a "good call" in my book. I see the point you're trying to make -- but bring ammo man, bring ammo.

<Staxalax> Honestly, #flopturnriver is the one thing that has improved my game the most.
Directions to join the #flopturnriver Internet Relay Chat - Come chat with us!

koolmoe

03-27-2006, 06:45 PM

#8 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jun 2004

Location: Drowning in prosperity

Posts: 1,279

Quote:

Originally Posted by euphoricism

Calling down Q or King high on the river will never, ever, ever be a "good call" in my book.

I disagree, but you gotta have the right player and board.

Poker is freedom

chardrian

03-27-2006, 08:05 PM

#9 (permalink)

I rarely,if ever, get pms

Join Date: Apr 2005

Posts: 4,524

I didn't say I was checking every flop coming to me. I have stopped betting absolutely every checked flop where I raised preflop tho (which used to be my line every single time).

http://chardrian.blogspot.com
come check out my training videos at pokerpwnage.com

Rondavu

03-27-2006, 08:18 PM

#10 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 3,053

Quote:

Originally Posted by chardrian

The new fun part of the game for me is making those good calls on the river with Q or K high against opps that defend any blind and call any flop and have clearly been stealing pots on the river when I show weakness on the turn.

Agreed. The fact is if you feel someone is habitually stealing off of your weak line, then you have to make a stand. I would prefer to set up loaded lines against my opponent instead of calling thin, such as checking around a couple times on draw safe boards when I have something nice. Not enough to lose value, but enough to put the aggressive opponent in line. I don't like calling down with K high, but I've done it plenty and won.

Quote:

Originally Posted by euphoricism

Ew char, eww.
Checking behind on the flop SCREAMS weak.

Disagreed. Checking behind on the flop screams weak only when your checks ARE too often weak enough to bless the villain with a math move. Any time an opponent gets too aggressive, passive, tight, or loose... you have to punish the tendancy. You're being exploited for being weak tight. You have to counterstrike in order to achieve balance of respect. This improves your value in other ways as well when you are percieved as good enough to adjust. It's all a back and forth. Good opponents will pound the wound. Don't let it happen.

It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.

elipsesjeff

03-27-2006, 08:19 PM

#11 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Jul 2004

Location: Northern Virginia

Posts: 4,900

elipsesjeff is an unknown quantity at this point

I just simply bet/fold the turn.

Check out my videos at Grinderschool.com

More Full Ring NLHE Cash videos than ANY other poker training site. Training starts at $10/month.

Rondavu

03-27-2006, 08:23 PM

#12 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 3,053

Am I thinking about it the right way Jeff?

It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.

elipsesjeff

03-27-2006, 09:24 PM

#13 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Jul 2004

Location: Northern Virginia

Posts: 4,900

I think you guys are thinking too hard about it. I went through a time when I would check/behind a lot on the turn only to autocall the river bet with ace high or any pair. I do it much less now though as I realized its so much easier to bet/fold the turn an check the river, costing me the same money but have an increase in folding equity.

You guys underestimate the times that players fold better hands than yours on the turn because they are either afraid of the card, a random draw or that they are just too weak tight. Also, a lot of times they'll still call the turn bet either drawing or not with a worse hand than yours and you need to make them pay for their draw.

So, like I said, I simply just started to bet out every time. The only exceptions would be a hand like middle pair vs a tag, where I'd rather see a showdown than have to fold to a turn/check raise.

Check out my videos at Grinderschool.com

More Full Ring NLHE Cash videos than ANY other poker training site. Training starts at $10/month.

pokerfanatic

03-27-2006, 09:51 PM

#14 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: 6max limit tables

Posts: 1,968

Quote:

Originally Posted by elipsesjeff

I think you guys are thinking too hard about it. I went through a time when I would check/behind a lot on the turn only to auto call the river bet with ace high or any pair.

Real bad idea, there is a spew if i ever heard one, sure with reads it can make it correct but just doing it because is a spew, i mean bet folding the turn shouldn't be automatic either just because a guy raised...

Quote:

Originally Posted by elipsesjeff

You guys underestimate the times that players fold better hands than yours on the turn because they are either afraid of the card, a random draw or that they are just too weak tight. Also, a lot of times they'll still call the turn bet either drawing or not with a worse hand than yours and you need to make them pay for their draw.

Yea I agree, I have seen some really funny shit call the turn bet and I miss bets on the river by checking behind because I have no idea where I am in the hand, the show shit like 62o for a busted GSD and all sorts of crazy junk hands... I have also seen people c/r these draws on the turn as well so make sure you know you're opponent’s tendency before you "automatically" make a play...

6 max is one of those games that nothing should be automatic for you there should be some reasoning behind it… this is way I hate when good players click bet as fast as they can, it’s like they are not thinking past what they have and what the board is, I’m sorry but no one can think in a matter of 1sec… it is limit so I mean within 10-20 sec I bet you get a answer that has a higher probability of being right by at least 50%...

there is nothing wrong with taking a little 10sec at each street no need to have the guns locked and loaded... loaded sure you are always loaded doesn't mean you lock it in and fire...

“Dream as if you’ll live forever. Live as if you’ll die today.” ~ James Dean ~

"Poker is a lot like sex, peoples perceived ability usually blinds the truth" ~ me ~

"God bless him. Got to bet big to win big! GAMB00L!!!" ~ Fnord

euphoricism

03-27-2006, 10:10 PM

#15 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005

Location: Your place or my place

Posts: 3,610

Quote:

Originally Posted by elipsesjeff

I just simply bet/fold the turn.

Yup yup. Checking through the flop is rarely a good idea. Generally when I start at a table, I'll use a lot of bet/folding the turn. If I then feel that people are farking with me on the turn, I'll stop betting them, and will auto call the river with A high or better a few times, depending on board texture of course.

<Staxalax> Honestly, #flopturnriver is the one thing that has improved my game the most.
Directions to join the #flopturnriver Internet Relay Chat - Come chat with us!

Latest Poker News
KoRnholio	05-26-2012, 03:08 PM Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
According to an email sent out by Mark Bryan, a gaming analyst at Merrill Lynch, the Australian government plans to legalize online poker sometime in the next six to 12 months. This move will coincide ... more at Poker Blogs »

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts BB code is On Smilies are On [IMG] code is On HTML code is Off Trackbacks are On Pingbacks are On Refbacks are On Forum Rules

All times are GMT. The time now is 09:45 AM.

Play Texas Holdem Online, Online Texas Holdem Strategy, & Poker Forum

This is not a gambling website.

Poker Forum

Over 1,246,000 Posts!

Poker Forum

All Other (Limit) Poker

Blufing in 6max

Play for FREE and practice your game at...