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Blindly walking with middle pair

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MystcMage

01-22-2006, 04:27 AM Post subject: Blindly walking with middle pair

#1 (permalink)

Join Date: Feb 2005

Posts: 12

I'm a first time poster/long time lurker who worked his way up from $0.05/$0.10 looking to learn how to beat $2/$4 more effectively.

A common situation I find myself in when flopping middle pair is determining if/when I'm beaten (don't we all). I give these recently played hands as an example. I'll refrain from analysis now so I don't affect any responses.

Hand 1:
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with J

, J

.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, Hero raises, 7 folds, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (5.50 SB) 4

, Q

, T

(2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (3.75 BB) 5

(2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 raises, Hero calls.

River: (7.75 BB) 6

(2 players)
UTG+1 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9.75 BB

Hand 2:
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with J

, J

.
2 folds, Hero raises, 6 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) 3

, 4

, A

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.

Turn: (3.25 BB) 4

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

River: (3.25 BB) Q

(2 players)
BB bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 4.25 BB

Hand 3:
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6

, 8

.
6 folds, Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (3 SB) 6

, 2

, A

(3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, Button bets, SB folds, Hero...

(Fill in the blank with your line)

Hand 4: (Okay, it's bottom pair)
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with 3

, T

.
3 folds, MP2 calls, 3 folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (3 SB) 3

, 9

, 5

(3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP2 bets, SB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (2.50 BB) 4

(2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 checks.

River: (2.50 BB) A

(2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 4.50 BB

Hand 5:
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9

, K

.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, 2 folds, MP3 calls $2 (All-In), 2 folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 6

, Q

, 9

(6 players, 1 all-in)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks.

Turn: (3 BB) 2

(6 players, 1 all-in)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds, SB folds.

River: (6 BB) T

(4 players, 1 all-in)
Hero bets, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 9 BB

Hand 6:
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8

, T

.
4 folds, MP2 calls, 3 folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (3 SB) J

, 8

, 4

(3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP2 raises, SB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (3.50 BB) 2

(2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 checks.

River: (3.50 BB) 7

(2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 checks.

Final Pot: 3.50 BB

Hand 7:
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is CO with J

, J

.
4 folds, MP3 calls, Hero raises, 3 folds, MP3 calls.

Flop: (5.50 SB) 9

, Q

, 5

(2 players)
MP3 checks, Hero bets, MP3 calls.

Turn: (3.75 BB) K

(2 players)
MP3 checks, Hero checks.

River: (3.75 BB) 5

(2 players)
MP3 bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 4.75 BB

Hand 8:
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is BB with 7

, 7

.
2 folds, UTG+2 raises, 5 folds, SB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 8

, 6

, 4

(3 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, UTG+2 calls, SB calls.

Turn: (6 BB) K

(3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG+2 bets, SB calls, Hero folds.

River: (8 BB) 5

(2 players)
SB checks, UTG+2 bets, SB calls.

Final Pot: 10 BB

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outphase

01-22-2006, 04:37 AM

#2 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Apr 2005

Posts: 949

hand 1: fold the turn, you're beat here too often to even justify the call down. You have just 2nd pair pretty much... Do you call down in the same spot with a 10?

hand 2: sometimes I bet the turn given the likelihood of the opp folding. Given your line, I fold the river.

hand 3: either you bet the flop or fold when someone else does.

hand 4: if you don't want to bet, definitely do not call down with bottom pair

hand 5: value betting is fine

hand 6: i'd value bet the river if he checked through the turn

hand 7: bet the turn to see if he's serious... or give it up accordingly, as long as you don't call down

Quote:

Originally Posted by lambchopdc

Lets stop talking ABC poker and move on to D, E, and F.

Buddy Love5

01-22-2006, 05:36 AM

#3 (permalink)

Join Date: Nov 2005

Location: Rector

Posts: 43

If I'm last to act I'm looking to bet the turn, and if I get check-raised then the middle pair is more than likely beat and it is time to lay down the hand.

If the turn bet is just called and you don't improve your hand on the river then a check is just fine. However, if you do improve your hand then you can bet the river with your two pair or trips.

Alot of times when you checked the turn and then your opponent bet the river you probably had them beat possibly. So therefor betting the turn when last to act will keep you from getting bluffed out of a hand on the river.

01-22-2006, 08:41 AM

#4 (permalink)

Guest

Posts: n/a

hand 1: fold turn
hand 2: bet turn
hand 3: raise the flop actually
hand 4: you didn't make your draw... or bet if you think he'll fold (I wouldn't do it though)
hand 5: looks fine this is where I'd bet the flop and where I'd be wrong to do it
hand 6: sucks you got raised on the flop, the rest is fine I guess
hand 7: bet that turn you may still be ahead
hand 8: good

this is without reading the responses
I agree on one thing: if you bet the turn and get a free showdown at least some of the time you'll win where you would have folded the river

MystcMage

01-24-2006, 08:03 PM Post subject: Review

#5 (permalink)

Join Date: Feb 2005

Posts: 12

Hand 1: That's a play I don't make regularly, half of my brain thought "I've folded enough of my big hands recently" QTo takes it down.
Hand 2: When my flop bet gets called on A-rag-rag rainbow, I'm not feeling so good about it, but I agree I should bet the turn to prevent a river bluff. If I'm raised, I'm done.
Hand 3: These type of situations I get uncomfortable with. After running the math, I came to the conclusion that a raise is in order. I figure that I'd lead the turn and if my opponent follows me to the river, I'm likely beat and would just check-fold?
Hand 4: What I thought on the flop was that my opponent was just betting on overs. What I did with that thought was pretty weak. A check/raise & lead turn would've been better. I check/called on the river because the only hands that call me also beat me and I might induce another bluff. He has KQo and MHIG.
Hand 5: I didn't consider how many draws filled on the river. I was good on the turn, but I was beaten by KJ and 87 on the river.
Hand 6: I most likely fold this if forced to call a turn bet. He has A8.
Hand 7: This hand I face 2 overs on the turn and it hurts more to get check/raised with a straight draw. Still, I should've still bet it and hope my opponent was still on a draw.
Hand 8: I guess I'm satisfied with how I played this. The 3rd heart and likely over for UTG+2 are no good at all for me, yet it seems wrong to raise the flop and check-fold the turn. UTG+2 has AKo with the Ah.

Romulus141

01-24-2006, 10:18 PM

#6 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Oct 2005

Location: Oxford, PA

Posts: 118

(Without reading responses)

Hand 1: Fold the turn. The pot simply isn't big enough to fight over.

Hand 2: Bet the turn.

Hand 3: Fold, if you follow this line. The fish love their aces, and even if you're ahead (which I doubt), there are plenty of other cards or pocket pairs that can beat a 6. The pot is way too small anyway to consider a raise.

Hand 4: Fold flop. Once again, the pot is too small. Notice a pattern emerging here?

Hand 5: I hate these situations, and I'm not too comfortable with them. With 6 players on this flop and with me being in terrible position, I'm nervous to bet out. However, I think you have to, since you don't want those drawing to a heart flush to get free cards. If a lot of people call my bet, I'm probably checking the turn and seeing what happens.

Hand 6: Small pot and out of position. However, the flop could have missed him so it's alright to try and take it down here. You have to bet again on the turn though, and fold to a raise.

Hand 7: Bet the turn.

Hand 8: I may bet the turn, and then fold to a raise.

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Blindly walking with middle pair

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