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big hand, big pot, big decision?

  
 
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DrivingDog
Old 09-11-2007, 09:33 PM     Post subject: big hand, big pot, big decision? #1 (permalink)  
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SB: Sat down about 50 hands ago. LAG but not maniac. Loose defender out of the blinds, but doesn't seem bad enough to call a raise from the SB without a half-decent hand.

BB: Seems like standard loose passive guppy. But only about 30 hands against him and i've seen worse.

About 500 hands against UTG, so a bit clearer read - A bit loose preflop. Raises good hands. Limps with mediocre and monster hands. Fairly sensible postflop, doesn't showdown junk.



With four players capping the flop i couldn't help but wonder if there wasn't a bigger set or made straight out there. The turn card didn't make me feel much better...

Do i bet or check here? Assuming i bet, what's my play vs. a c/r?

(I'll post the river and results later if anyone is interested).


PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 8, 8.
UTG calls, 2 folds, Hero raises, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (8 SB) J, Q, 8 (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, SB raises, BB 3-bets, UTG calls, Hero caps, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (12 BB) T (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Hero ?
"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).
 
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Fnord
Old 09-11-2007, 10:03 PM #2 (permalink)  
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Bet and call the check/raise. I'm showing this down almost always.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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KoRnholio
Old 09-11-2007, 10:11 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 Pretty weird action going on here. I can't see folding though, and I think there's a good chance that we are still ahead here. If I had to put these guys on hands at this point, I'd put

- UTG on KQ (limp preflop, cold calling 3 bets on the flop, top pair goot, right??)
- SB on just about any pair/2pair using cards 8-Q, could have a straight now if he holds Q9/J9
- BB could have JJ or QJ here, you said he's passive, he might not 3bet JJ preflop
Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
 
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DrivingDog
Old 09-12-2007, 12:20 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Yeah the little Fnord in my head is saying 'bet', and the little David Sklansky is saying 'you don't know how to handle a c/r so don't bet'. The little DD is saying "Wtf was all that flop action about!?", and trying to search my memory banks for a similar situation that had arisen before. Two days later and i'm still searching.

River and results later today...
"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).
 
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BennyLaRue
Old 09-12-2007, 05:06 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Bet and call the check/raise. I'm showing this down almost always.
Right on. The pre-flop/flop betting screams two pair to me. Don't take the free card on the turn. If it is a trap with a straight, it's not the end of the world since you still have 10 ten pretty clean outs to improve.
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DrivingDog
Old 09-12-2007, 05:28 PM #6 (permalink)  
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I don't see BB c/3betting with any hand that contains a 9 or AK. I'm mostly worried about UTG -- of the hands he'd call 3 cold with, AK, QQ, J9s, T9s, 98s, are all in his open-limping range (and beating me on the turn), as are AA and KK (which i'm beating on the turn). True i have 10 outs against most of those hands i'm behind to, but that doesn't mean i want to pay two bets for a chance to hit one.
"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).
 
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BennyLaRue
Old 09-12-2007, 06:32 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrivingDog
True i have 10 outs against most of those hands i'm behind to, but that doesn't mean i want to pay two bets for a chance to hit one.
You're not sure you're behind though, so the bet is for value here, with the 10 outs only being your insurance plan if c/r.
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DrivingDog
Old 09-12-2007, 07:13 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BennyLaRue
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrivingDog
True i have 10 outs against most of those hands i'm behind to, but that doesn't mean i want to pay two bets for a chance to hit one.
You're not sure you're behind though, so the bet is for value here, with the 10 outs only being your insurance plan if c/r.
Based on my reads i'm more likely behind than ahead vs. UTG. I suppose he might be more likely to bet out than c/r a made straight on this board, so that should probably be considered as well. Still, i'm just not comfortable with betting here.
"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).
 
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DrivingDog
Old 09-12-2007, 10:11 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Here's the entire hand. I'll never doubt the little green-suited pimp voice in my head again...

And yes it was fairly stupid not to bet the river. Completely froze there - lol at myself!



PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

Preflop: Hero is Button with , .
UTG calls, 2 folds, Hero raises, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (8 SB) , , (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, SB raises, BB 3-bets, UTG calls, Hero caps, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (12 BB) (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks.

River: (12 BB) (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 12 BB

Results in white below:
SB has Ts Ad (one pair, tens).
BB has Qh Jh (two pair, queens and jacks).
UTG has Ac Ah (one pair, aces).
Hero has 8d 8c (three of a kind, eights).
Outcome: Hero wins 12 BB.
"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).
 
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KoRnholio
Old 09-12-2007, 11:12 PM #10 (permalink)  
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 Wow people play bad. I love poker. UTG limps then overcalls a 4way pot with AA... Awesome.
Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
 
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DrivingDog
Old 09-12-2007, 11:52 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Yeah lol. I can see BB wanting to c/r the turn too. That would have really messed up my head.
"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).
 
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