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A benign hand that generated discussion w/ a friend.

  
 
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6high
Old 06-15-2006, 05:59 PM     Post subject: A benign hand that generated discussion w/ a friend. #1 (permalink)  
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Villian is fairly standard. Slightly aggressive.

Absolute Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $5/$10
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is BB with J K
4 folds, SB calls, Hero raises, SB calls.

Flop: 2 Q 4 (2SB, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.

Turn: J (2BB, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB raises, Hero calls.

River: 9 (6BB, 2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Results:
Final pot: 8BB

What are your thoughts?
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pokerfanatic
Old 06-15-2006, 06:55 PM #2 (permalink)  
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Umm I don't know anything about a "fairly standard" player over at Absolute ever played there, however assuming that he is argo and that he plays decently, I could easily put him on Qx, Jx, maybe a FD, maybe it was a pure re-steal... hard to say without playing the opponent in the hand...

I personally think a call down is fine I like your line if that's what you are asking... I have no real reads on your opponent to be able to say ohh you should fold or raise...

when in doubt and you might have a winning hand calling down for a couple extra bets isn't a huge spew i guess but i wouldn't do it all the time... obvously, having reads and such going into a table if posible about how they might be playing and if they are capable of making moves like this on a pure bluff or not would help a ton...
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elipsesjeff
Old 06-15-2006, 07:31 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 Don't mind the call on the river, which is really the only decision to make. He could be semibluffing either his flush or straight draw, which, sadly both came in. It is a blind situation and is the only thing you have going for you. He did limp in, which could imply a Jx type of hand. You have to hope this is the hand he has, or 9T.

Side note: if villain is standard and fairly aggressive, why no raise preflop to steal the blind? That could lead me to believe he is slow playing some kind of monster or he has suited connectors as he wants you in the pot. I wouldnt be surprised to see a KK or AA here also.

If I am on my A++ game I can make this fold.


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Ltrain
Old 06-15-2006, 08:16 PM #4 (permalink)  
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If I don't have a read that he will checkraise turns with TPTK or a semibluff draw, I call this down as well.
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midas06
Old 06-16-2006, 01:08 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Are you propping at Absolute?
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6high
Old 06-20-2006, 02:50 AM #6 (permalink)  
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My friend said to check the turn.
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midas06
Old 06-20-2006, 03:06 AM #7 (permalink)  
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why?
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6high
Old 06-20-2006, 03:11 AM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midas06
why?
He said:

This is a tiny pot.
Getting checkraised and having to call down is very costly.
The value of having him bluff the river will far outway the cost of giving a free card.

BTW. Are you in CHCH?
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midas06
Old 06-20-2006, 03:44 AM #9 (permalink)  
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yes
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koolmoe
Old 06-20-2006, 02:39 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6high
Quote:
Originally Posted by midas06
why?
He said:

This is a tiny pot.
Getting checkraised and having to call down is very costly.
The value of having him bluff the river will far outway the cost of giving a free card.

BTW. Are you in CHCH?
I think that arguing to check the turn is being results oriented since you are likely to get called down by all sorts of crap in a blind war. In those spots, you will missing at least 1 bet by checking.

Sure it sucks to get check/raised, but it doesn't always mean you're behind. Letting your opponent get in three bets when behind when he check/raises the turn and leads the river while behind is obviously better than just picking off a river bluff even if it happens only 1/2 as often.
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6high
Old 06-20-2006, 08:51 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koolmoe
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6high
Quote:
Originally Posted by midas06
why?
He said:

This is a tiny pot.
Getting checkraised and having to call down is very costly.
The value of having him bluff the river will far outway the cost of giving a free card.

BTW. Are you in CHCH?
I think that arguing to check the turn is being results oriented since you are likely to get called down by all sorts of crap in a blind war. In those spots, you will missing at least 1 bet by checking.

Sure it sucks to get check/raised, but it doesn't always mean you're behind. Letting your opponent get in three bets when behind when he check/raises the turn and leads the river while behind is obviously better than just picking off a river bluff even if it happens only 1/2 as often.
That's what I said.

Villian showed Q8 and MHING
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