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becoming an omanit

  
 
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drmcboy
Old 08-21-2008, 08:09 PM     Post subject: becoming an omanit #1 (permalink)  
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 CO seems kinda bad but usually when he is calling bets (with dominated draws) or on the river (making what were either weird bluffs or awful value bets) , I have not seen him show aggression like this on the flop in say 90 minutes over two tables. we have not tangled much and I'm sure he thinks I am tight

MP just bought in and posted, unknown

if we call I assume I commit on brick turns?


PokerStars Pot-Limit Omaha High, $4 BB (6 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

SB ($400)
BB ($456.20)
UTG ($1045)
MP ($240)
CO ($326.80)
Hero ($837.10)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 6, 7, 6, 8. MP posts a blind of $4.
1 fold, MP (poster) checks, CO calls $4, Hero calls $4, 1 fold, BB checks.

Flop: ($18) 2, 6, 7 (4 players)
BB checks, MP bets $12, CO raises to $53.1, Hero ?
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swiggidy
Old 08-21-2008, 10:19 PM #2 (permalink)  
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 If you put him on A345 ds in c & d you're 49%. Only reason I would call is if I thought MP would come along.

Ok, just noticed you're at huge stakes. Not sure how they play. If he's 2nd barreling harmless turns (although what's harmless, 8 9 T are all potentially scary) maybe. Ok, just realized they're 50 and 75bb. I raise and basically commit myself.
(\__/)
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bigspenda73
Old 08-21-2008, 10:26 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 Well you can call and stack off on a 2/6/7/J/Q/K/A turn (obv that aren't diamonds for J+)

The way I see it there are 27 non-outs (you have one blocker) and 18 clean cards making me want to get the money in now rather than waiting for the turn. If you don't have a 7 in your hand my thinking could change completely to folding the flop.

Also note that most TAGGs will never have bottom set here after limping in. Usually the only way they have 22xx is with AA22/KK22 or As2sKd2d type hands that they open PF with.
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drmcboy
Old 08-22-2008, 04:37 AM #4 (permalink)  
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 yeah I sorta worried about top set and agree I was never seeing bottom set. I was not sure how much value to put on the 7 blocker - It seemed like the old AA vs KK argument - it happens 1 in (whatever) but a whole lot more than that when you get 4 bet pre

So I thought sometimes I'm dead and sometimes it's like wrap vs FD but the more I thought about after the more I thought they might have been holding each other's outs.

I'm so done playing small pairs for a while unless I have a NFD to go with them, I don't think I played a single small set good today.
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bigspenda73
Old 08-22-2008, 05:16 AM #5 (permalink)  
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 Bottom set/Top 2 are big sucker hands in PLO

I think it's typically correct to wait for a safe turn with these hands before completely committing one's stack. Of course it's fairly opponent dependent. Against this nittiest of nits I've folded bottom set on the flop a few times.
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swiggidy
Old 08-22-2008, 05:15 PM #6 (permalink)  
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 Do you think opening co/btn with small set type hands (hopefully with other outs) is bad? (Obv not always going crazy when we hit)

As opposed to calling with these hands?

Also obvious, but your 7 blocker is pretty big. There is only one possible 77, as opposed to 3 possible combos. I'd consider it a cooler here if he shows up with 77.
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bigspenda73
Old 08-22-2008, 05:22 PM #7 (permalink)  
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 Swiggs, you're failing to realize we either get "coolered" or we get it in flipping or maybe at best 58/42 (fd+gutter+overpair)

Set over set is not a cooler in PLO.
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Miffed22001
Old 08-23-2008, 01:02 AM #8 (permalink)  
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 if your against a nut fd/oesd combo youre still a 58% fav, if your against top set, meh.

i think this is a pretty easy spot to 4bet the flop and stack off
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drmcboy
Old 08-23-2008, 07:53 PM #9 (permalink)  
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 Am I running this wrong? I don't see where you came up with 58%

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=5098432
pokenum -o 8s 6h 7s 6c - ad td 9h 8h -- 7c 2d 6d
Omaha Hi: 820 enumerated boards containing 7c 6d 2d
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
8s 7s 6c 6h 406 49.51 408 49.76 6 0.73 0.499
Ad Td 9h 8h 408 49.76 406 49.51 6 0.73 0.501
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drmcboy
Old 08-23-2008, 08:00 PM #10 (permalink)  
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 I see, you mean actual OSED rather than a real draw

still with 2 people showing life I don't think this is an unrealistic number
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swiggidy
Old 08-25-2008, 01:07 AM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
Set over set is not a cooler in PLO.
I only said that because we have a 7.
(\__/)
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Miffed22001
Old 08-25-2008, 03:01 AM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drmcboy
I see, you mean actual OSED rather than a real draw

still with 2 people showing life I don't think this is an unrealistic number
i think i ran an oesd and a fd together. 58% seems high now that i look back. Let me check
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drmcboy
Old 08-25-2008, 05:06 AM #13 (permalink)  
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 OESD (8 outs) + FD is about 58%, I just never think in OESD terms anymore
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bigspenda73
Old 08-25-2008, 05:14 AM #14 (permalink)  
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 17 outs against a set is a flip in PLO
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