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BennyLaRue
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06-29-2009, 03:39 AM
Post subject: Bad spot for a slowplay?
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 646
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This is from tonight's Gauntlet. Aside from a few hundred hands, I only ever play PLO as part of 8-game. Opp was playing the big stack, so was fairly certain I could induce some serious turn action if handed a non-spade. But is giving him a free shot at the flush a terrible idea in PLO as pre-flop opps are looking for drawing hands?
PokerStars Pot-Limit Omaha, $10+$1 Tournament, 50/100 Blinds (5 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
SB (t3470)
Hero (BB) (t3679)
UTG (t2719)
MP (t1035)
Button (t5597)
Hero's M: 24.53
Preflop: Hero is BB with K , 6, A , 5
2 folds, Button bets t250, 1 fold, Hero calls t150
Flop: (t550) 7 , 4 , 8 (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks
Turn: (t550) 5 (2 players)
Hero bets t400, Button raises to t1750, Hero raises to t3429 (All-In), Button calls t1679
River: (t7408) 7 (2 players, 1 all-in)
Total pot: t7408
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
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ya I don't like it, and I especially am not fond of getting it in on the turn against Ben.
There are a lot of cool bluff cards you can use on the river if/when he checks.
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BennyLaRue
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 646
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Ok, if I'm playing the flop fast, what bet size do you like? These are the spots I find difficult with Omaha. I want to get paid with my good hands, but there's a fine line between doing so and allowing draws to play on.
Generally, are you finding fewer spots in Omaha to slowplay relatively to HE or is my impression off?
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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I think because of the nature of the game theres going to be very few times to slowplay. It'd have to be super dry board for me to consider it. So often, someone is going to have something, like a pair + draw or gutter + FD or whatever, that theres value in being fairly straight foward with your big hands as well as the protection.
The problem with a really wet flop like this, is how often is my hand going to improve enough to give you lots of action on the turn, without moving ahead of your hand.
I think moreso than holdem, omaha is probably a game where you dont mind people folding that much.
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Just playing to improve.
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drmcboy
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DrButtInski
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 9,601
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once I checked JJJ on a J54r board in a raised pot. I was the SB. it checked through and the Th came making a flush draw. I ended up AI 4 way vs 987, 86 w/ hearts, nut hearts with a gutter and I think a KQ. I gained like $2 in equity compared to betting the flop and spent an entire stack to defend said gain. you cannot compare the free card damage to HE
if you had 100BBs you might play slow here but with 30 I think the spookiest lines you can take are c/c and c/r on this board.
If I am playing well I would fold pre flop.
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salsa4ever
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,073
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I have won a lot of money in omaha following the principle of:
"if you bet, something good might happen"
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigred
Would you bone your cousins? Salsa would.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by salsa4ever
well courtie, since we're both clear, would you accept an invitation for some unprotected sex?
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BennyLaRue
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 646
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Thanks to all for the comments.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by drmcboy
If I am playing well I would fold pre flop.
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I agree but will say this was situation specific. Ben was raising and re-raising light pre-flop (and at least in that, I was correct...his particular holding here was Jh 7h 9c 6h or see http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...23.html#905519 for additional evidence) and had been after my BB a few orbits in a row. I was picking a spot to defend before the 100/200 level. Still bad?
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drmcboy
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DrButtInski
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 9,601
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J976 is a much better hand than AK56, esp short enough that you won't care about being under a flop like QT but deep enough for a couple bets still post flop. J976 is one hand, AK56 is two.
If you want to defend I would 3 bet. you get a super terrific flop here and it's still hard to play. mostly with this hand (when you flop good) you'll flop an iffy two pair or pair + meh FD and those spots are hard with 30 BBs left - you'll get outplayed in both directions a lot i think. Also what's the plan with TPTK?
If you 3 bet you can shove when you make TP+ /or the FD and not have to think any more, probably get some bad calls and bad folds
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BennyLaRue
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 646
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by drmcboy
J976 is a much better hand than AK56
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I've got J976 as a 45-55 dog to my hand. Or do you mean easier to play post-flop or something?
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drmcboy
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DrButtInski
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 9,601
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yes, post flop. pre flop equity means even less in omaha than it does in HE with a decent stack behind. And position imo means more. Thats why I suggest a 3 bet if you want to play.
Also J976 is in OK shape vs almost anything, whereas AK56 is easily dominated. When you are in against 9876 OR AKQJ, they are either going to flop nothing or a two way hand that will often be free rolling you. You will be the one with top and bottom trying to guess on the turn and river.
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BennyLaRue
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 646
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Right on, thanks. I really should play some cash and get some of these concepts down better.
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drmcboy
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DrButtInski
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 9,601
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for sure, I only played a little .5/1 but based on that sample those stakes or below have to be pretty simple.
if you have 100BB stacks J976 is also iffy, you get in trouble vs QJT9 types when big money goes in. And I would almost never play AK56 although with a suited ace I might play IP.
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by BennyLaRue
Thanks to all for the comments.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by drmcboy
If I am playing well I would fold pre flop.
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I agree but will say this was situation specific. Ben was raising and re-raising light pre-flop |
Raising somewhat light, but not reraising light, just hit good cards when I 3-bet. I'm not sure I 3bet less than AAXX all game tbh, and OOP I think I flatted 1/2 times. Remember this hand I'm OTB, so I'm not just playing my cards, I'm playing position and happy to take it down PF. I think my 3789 hand was the only light call OOP I made, and I just felt it wasnt terrible v's your range which was really easy to read and my hand isnt going to have tough decisions on the flop.
Bare in mind, table was playing fairly tight, and the only guy really getting tricky was Dr that I could see. Everyone else was pretty much playing their cards.
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Just playing to improve.
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drmcboy
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DrButtInski
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 9,601
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i also felt everyone was pretty tight. for 1500 stacks it was a good tourney
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
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meh I had no idea about an UTG-MP strat in FR, esp. whether limping, minraising, or potting was the right play. I think I've played less than 1,000 lifetime hands of PLO with more than 6 players. I got dealt a lot of borderline hands in those spots and figured I might as well play them b/c usually Doc was in the blinds and everyone on my left was playing extremely straightforward.
Eventually Fim got short and on my left which left me scratching my head a lot, bleh.
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