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lzfsb3
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08-17-2006, 07:19 PM
Post subject: Bad play on Ace/Queen Suited?
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Montrose, Michigan
Posts: 15
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Should I have played this differently? I called on the flop so that I would keep the SB in then raised on the turn to see how serious the BB was. I think my biggest mistake was raising again on the river.
PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with Q , A .
1 fold, Hero raises, 5 folds, SB calls, BB calls.
Flop: (6 SB) K , 2 , A (3 players)
SB checks, BB bets, Hero calls, SB folds.
Turn: (4 BB) 5 (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB calls.
River: (8 BB) 7 (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB calls.
Final Pot: 12 BB
Results in white below:
BB has Ad Kc (two pair, aces and kings).
Hero has Qh Ah (one pair, aces).
Outcome: BB wins 12 BB.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
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The only play I don't like is the river raise. When he donks the river, you can assume you are beat and just call down. You do not beat any hands that call your raise on the turn and then can donk the river. I honestly thought it was a set you were up against.
The level you're at contains a lot of passive play, he did not 3bet preflop which makes it difficult to put him on AK or better. However, I think a general rule of thumb is if a passive player calls a raise and then donks the next street you are in trouble. Observe this the next session you play and see if it holds true.
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gop2004
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08-17-2006, 08:55 PM
Post subject: Trapping?
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#3 (permalink)
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: UB SNG
Posts: 92
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I play the same limits and, although I'm no expert, I'm not building a pot here. I'm raising the BB on the flop. If he 3bets I'm thinking set or AK and I fold having lost 4SB. If he calls I'm still defensive and probably fold to a bet on the turn. He's a tricky one though not reraising preflop. At .25/.50 most players are jamming AK every time even out of position.
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Those who wander are often actually lost.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by gop2004
He's a tricky one though not reraising preflop.
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Well, this isnt exactly true, don't be quick to call him a tricky player. Most poor players do no even raise AK preflop let alone 3bet it. He is very lucky you had a big ace, otherwise he stands to win the minimum on this hand. I don't get why ppl won't 3bet or cap AK preflop. Unless a Tight/Passive has raised or 3bet you then AK is certainly a reraising hand preflop.
The more I look at this hand the more it looks like A2 to me. I can never put anyone on a set of 2s and this is the only hand i can see that would donk out into Hero here. Honestly, there is no reason to donk unless you want to be raised, which would mean a large hand. He is OOP so he cannot be donking for a free card. This means he has a hand. He knows you cannot fold after raising preflop. THIS IS WHY YOU HAVE TO RAISE THE FLOP!. I didn't see this before. Raise this flop and find out where you are at. If he calls and donks the turn, throw away the AQs here. Lets look how much you could have saved yourself.
No flop raise, you lose 3 more BB
Flop raise, you lose 1 SB, no more BBs.
This player thinks he is good, keep letting him think it, you can definitely outplay him.
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midas06
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NZ
Posts: 2,196
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I only call the river as you played it.
I raise the flop though
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gop2004
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: UB SNG
Posts: 92
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
Quote:
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Originally Posted by gop2004
He's a tricky one though not reraising preflop.
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Well, this isnt exactly true, don't be quick to call him a tricky player. Most poor players do no even raise AK preflop let alone 3bet it. He is very lucky you had a big ace, otherwise he stands to win the minimum on this hand. I don't get why ppl won't 3bet or cap AK preflop. Unless a Tight/Passive has raised or 3bet you then AK is certainly a reraising hand preflop.
The more I look at this hand the more it looks like A2 to me. I can never put anyone on a set of 2s and this is the only hand i can see that would donk out into Hero here. Honestly, there is no reason to donk unless you want to be raised, which would mean a large hand. He is OOP so he cannot be donking for a free card. This means he has a hand. He knows you cannot fold after raising preflop. THIS IS WHY YOU HAVE TO RAISE THE FLOP!. I didn't see this before. Raise this flop and find out where you are at. If he calls and donks the turn, throw away the AQs here. Lets look how much you could have saved yourself.
No flop raise, you lose 3 more BB
Flop raise, you lose 1 SB, no more BBs.
This player thinks he is good, keep letting him think it, you can definitely outplay him.
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You're right on about my "tricky" comment. And you're right about what happens LR to "tricky" players. I know, before I started to get a clue I was one of them. Too much WPT on the tube. I can't tell you how many times I got A's or K's cracked by "trapping". If I had all those bets back I'd be at .50/1 by now
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Those who wander are often actually lost.
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
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Quote:
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Most poor players do no even raise AK preflop let alone 3bet it.
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Thats cuz they think its a drawing hand and they never seem to win with it.
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outphase
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 949
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda73
When he donks the river, you can assume you are beat and just call down. You do not beat any hands that call your raise on the turn and then can donk the river.
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If you come to the conclusion you are beat, why call?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by lambchopdc
Lets stop talking ABC poker and move on to D, E, and F.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
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Yea, it's pretty marginal, guess it would come down to the player's range here. The only hand you stand any chance against is AJ and I just dont see him showing that. So you're right, if you know you're beat, fold. I would take this hand to showdown b/c I play a lot of players who get out of line easily, so my perspective may be skewed.
Looks like if you just call the river you're getting 9-1, tough to lay that down.
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arkitekton
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: canada
Posts: 269
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Another reason to raise on the flop is in the event the small blind has QT, JT, or Ksomething. You really can't be giving him 8 to 1 plus implied odds here.
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
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With the right read i've made this river raise before. How can you put the guy on AK? Its not that bad of a play and You'll find that being slightly over aggressive is better than not being aggressive enough.
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