Poker Forum

Over 1,246,000 Posts!

Subscribe to FTR web feed
Already Registered?      Username:    Password:   Remember      Forgot Password
  >    > 

Bad play on Ace/Queen Suited?

  
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
lzfsb3
Old 08-17-2006, 07:19 PM     Post subject: Bad play on Ace/Queen Suited? #1 (permalink)  

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Montrose, Michigan
Posts: 15
lzfsb3
Should I have played this differently? I called on the flop so that I would keep the SB in then raised on the turn to see how serious the BB was. I think my biggest mistake was raising again on the river.


PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with Q, A.
1 fold, Hero raises, 5 folds, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) K, 2, A (3 players)
SB checks, BB bets, Hero calls, SB folds.

Turn: (4 BB) 5 (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB calls.

River: (8 BB) 7 (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB calls.

Final Pot: 12 BB

Results in white below:
BB has Ad Kc (two pair, aces and kings).
Hero has Qh Ah (one pair, aces).
Outcome: BB wins 12 BB.
Wolverine Fan
"I don't know about the four 9's but I think the ace is pretty hot." -- George Clooney in Oceans Eleven
www.pokerandgolf.blogspot.com
 
Reply With Quote
Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!
bigspenda73
Old 08-17-2006, 08:50 PM #2 (permalink)  
bigspenda73's Avatar
Straight Flush

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
bigspenda73 will become famous soon enoughbigspenda73 will become famous soon enough
The only play I don't like is the river raise. When he donks the river, you can assume you are beat and just call down. You do not beat any hands that call your raise on the turn and then can donk the river. I honestly thought it was a set you were up against.

The level you're at contains a lot of passive play, he did not 3bet preflop which makes it difficult to put him on AK or better. However, I think a general rule of thumb is if a passive player calls a raise and then donks the next street you are in trouble. Observe this the next session you play and see if it holds true.
Reply With Quote
gop2004
Old 08-17-2006, 08:55 PM     Post subject: Trapping? #3 (permalink)  
gop2004's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: UB SNG
Posts: 92
gop2004
I play the same limits and, although I'm no expert, I'm not building a pot here. I'm raising the BB on the flop. If he 3bets I'm thinking set or AK and I fold having lost 4SB. If he calls I'm still defensive and probably fold to a bet on the turn. He's a tricky one though not reraising preflop. At .25/.50 most players are jamming AK every time even out of position.
Those who wander are often actually lost.
 
Reply With Quote
bigspenda73
Old 08-17-2006, 09:59 PM #4 (permalink)  
bigspenda73's Avatar
Straight Flush

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
bigspenda73 will become famous soon enoughbigspenda73 will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by gop2004
He's a tricky one though not reraising preflop.
Well, this isnt exactly true, don't be quick to call him a tricky player. Most poor players do no even raise AK preflop let alone 3bet it. He is very lucky you had a big ace, otherwise he stands to win the minimum on this hand. I don't get why ppl won't 3bet or cap AK preflop. Unless a Tight/Passive has raised or 3bet you then AK is certainly a reraising hand preflop.

The more I look at this hand the more it looks like A2 to me. I can never put anyone on a set of 2s and this is the only hand i can see that would donk out into Hero here. Honestly, there is no reason to donk unless you want to be raised, which would mean a large hand. He is OOP so he cannot be donking for a free card. This means he has a hand. He knows you cannot fold after raising preflop. THIS IS WHY YOU HAVE TO RAISE THE FLOP!. I didn't see this before. Raise this flop and find out where you are at. If he calls and donks the turn, throw away the AQs here. Lets look how much you could have saved yourself.

No flop raise, you lose 3 more BB
Flop raise, you lose 1 SB, no more BBs.

This player thinks he is good, keep letting him think it, you can definitely outplay him.
Reply With Quote
midas06
Old 08-17-2006, 11:00 PM #5 (permalink)  
midas06's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NZ
Posts: 2,196
midas06
I only call the river as you played it.

I raise the flop though
Reply With Quote
gop2004
Old 08-17-2006, 11:02 PM #6 (permalink)  
gop2004's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: UB SNG
Posts: 92
gop2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
Quote:
Originally Posted by gop2004
He's a tricky one though not reraising preflop.
Well, this isnt exactly true, don't be quick to call him a tricky player. Most poor players do no even raise AK preflop let alone 3bet it. He is very lucky you had a big ace, otherwise he stands to win the minimum on this hand. I don't get why ppl won't 3bet or cap AK preflop. Unless a Tight/Passive has raised or 3bet you then AK is certainly a reraising hand preflop.

The more I look at this hand the more it looks like A2 to me. I can never put anyone on a set of 2s and this is the only hand i can see that would donk out into Hero here. Honestly, there is no reason to donk unless you want to be raised, which would mean a large hand. He is OOP so he cannot be donking for a free card. This means he has a hand. He knows you cannot fold after raising preflop. THIS IS WHY YOU HAVE TO RAISE THE FLOP!. I didn't see this before. Raise this flop and find out where you are at. If he calls and donks the turn, throw away the AQs here. Lets look how much you could have saved yourself.

No flop raise, you lose 3 more BB
Flop raise, you lose 1 SB, no more BBs.

This player thinks he is good, keep letting him think it, you can definitely outplay him.
You're right on about my "tricky" comment. And you're right about what happens LR to "tricky" players. I know, before I started to get a clue I was one of them. Too much WPT on the tube. I can't tell you how many times I got A's or K's cracked by "trapping". If I had all those bets back I'd be at .50/1 by now
Those who wander are often actually lost.
 
Reply With Quote
elipsesjeff
Old 08-18-2006, 06:02 AM #7 (permalink)  
elipsesjeff's Avatar
Moderator

Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
elipsesjeff is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Most poor players do no even raise AK preflop let alone 3bet it.
Thats cuz they think its a drawing hand and they never seem to win with it.


Check out my videos at Grinderschool.com

More Full Ring NLHE Cash videos than ANY other poker training site. Training starts at $10/month.
 
Reply With Quote
outphase
Old 08-19-2006, 05:17 AM #8 (permalink)  
outphase's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 949
outphase
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
When he donks the river, you can assume you are beat and just call down. You do not beat any hands that call your raise on the turn and then can donk the river.
If you come to the conclusion you are beat, why call?
Quote:
Originally Posted by lambchopdc
Lets stop talking ABC poker and move on to D, E, and F.
 
Reply With Quote
bigspenda73
Old 08-19-2006, 06:25 AM #9 (permalink)  
bigspenda73's Avatar
Straight Flush

Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
bigspenda73 will become famous soon enoughbigspenda73 will become famous soon enough
Yea, it's pretty marginal, guess it would come down to the player's range here. The only hand you stand any chance against is AJ and I just dont see him showing that. So you're right, if you know you're beat, fold. I would take this hand to showdown b/c I play a lot of players who get out of line easily, so my perspective may be skewed.

Looks like if you just call the river you're getting 9-1, tough to lay that down.
Reply With Quote
arkitekton
Old 08-21-2006, 06:47 AM #10 (permalink)  
Flush

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: canada
Posts: 269
arkitekton
Another reason to raise on the flop is in the event the small blind has QT, JT, or Ksomething. You really can't be giving him 8 to 1 plus implied odds here.
Reply With Quote
elipsesjeff
Old 08-21-2006, 07:36 AM #11 (permalink)  
elipsesjeff's Avatar
Moderator

Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
elipsesjeff is an unknown quantity at this point
With the right read i've made this river raise before. How can you put the guy on AK? Its not that bad of a play and You'll find that being slightly over aggressive is better than not being aggressive enough.


Check out my videos at Grinderschool.com

More Full Ring NLHE Cash videos than ANY other poker training site. Training starts at $10/month.
 
Reply With Quote
Reply
Latest Poker News
KoRnholio Old 05-26-2012, 03:08 PM    Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
According to an email sent out by Mark Bryan, a gaming analyst at Merrill Lynch, the Australian government plans to legalize online poker sometime in the next six to 12 months. This move will coincide ...

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT. The time now is 08:33 AM.


FTR Testimonials

All content
© FlopTurnRiver.com
Advertising  |   Partners  |   Testimonials  |   T&C  |   Contact Us  |   FTR News & Press  |   Site Map  |   Search FTR

Full Tilt  |   Titan Poker  |   UltimateBet  |   Poker Stars  |   Ladbrokes Bonus  |   Sportsbook  |   Cake Poker  

Play Texas Holdem Online, Online Texas Holdem Strategy, & Poker Forum
This is not a gambling website.