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Bad beats are way too bad

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R3N3G4D3

08-03-2005, 04:20 AM Post subject: Bad beats are way too bad

#1 (permalink)

Join Date: Jul 2005

Posts: 16

I know that bad beats are part of the game, especially when playing with lots of calling stations. But I've also heard that in the long run they are supposed to balance out, and they just don't seem to be. I play .5/1 Limit and it seems that for every $3 I earn I lose $5 in a bad beat. Maybe in some of these situations I should have just folded, and just was too dumb to. Here is a typical example of a bad beat that cost me $6 when I was sure no one had anything better than my King-high flush (the converter seems to be spitting out bad output, so I will paste the hand here as is replacing my name with "Me" and removing hand history # to keep you guys from coming after me in Poker rooms):

***** Hand History for Game *****
0.50/1 Texas Hold'em Game Table (Limit) - Tue Aug 02 20:54:16 EDT 2005
Table Table (Real Money) -- Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: CaRednek ( $22.25)
Seat 2: DT_EDGE ( $38)
Seat 3: gangrel311 ( $47.75)
Seat 4: WileyWombat ( $25)
Seat 5: Lestat51 ( $5.25)
Seat 6: pilotjim3 ( $89.74)
Seat 7: don7768 ( $14.75)
Seat 8: Pritzi04 ( $36.50)
Seat 9: wfwrx23 ( $25.38)
Seat 10: Me ( $22)
wfwrx23 posts small blind (0.25)
Me posts big blind (0.50)
WileyWombat posts big blind (0.50)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Me [ Ks, Qs ]
CaRednek folds.
DT_EDGE calls (0.50)
gangrel311 calls (0.50)
WileyWombat checks.
Lestat51 calls (0.50)
pilotjim3 folds.
don7768 calls (0.50)
Pritzi04 folds.
wfwrx23 folds.
Me raises (0.50) to 1
DT_EDGE calls (0.50)
gangrel311 calls (0.50)
WileyWombat calls (0.50)
Lestat51 calls (0.50)
don7768 calls (0.50)
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 6s, 5s, Ts ]
Me checks.
DT_EDGE checks.
gangrel311 bets (0.50)
WileyWombat folds.
Lestat51 calls (0.50)
don7768 folds.
Me raises (1) to 1
DT_EDGE folds.
gangrel311 calls (0.50)
Lestat51 calls (0.50)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 5d ]
Me bets (1)
gangrel311 raises (2) to 2
Lestat51 folds.
Me raises (2) to 3
gangrel311 calls (1)
** Dealing River ** : [ 5c ]
Me bets (1)
gangrel311 calls (1)
** Summary **
Main Pot: $16.50 | Rake: $0.75
Board: [ 6s 5s Ts 5d 5c ]
CaRednek balance $22.25, didn't bet (folded)
DT_EDGE balance $37, lost $1 (folded)
gangrel311 balance $58.25, bet $6, collected $16.50, net +$10.50 [ 6h 6d ] [ a full house, Sixes full of fives -- 6h,6d,6s,5s,5d,5c ]
WileyWombat balance $24, lost $1 (folded)
Lestat51 balance $3.25, lost $2 (folded)
pilotjim3 balance $89.74, didn't bet (folded)
don7768 balance $13.75, lost $1 (folded)
Pritzi04 balance $36.50, didn't bet (folded)
wfwrx23 balance $25.13, lost $0.25 (folded)
Me balance $16, lost $6 [ Ks Qs ] [ a flush, king high -- Ks,Qs,Ts,6s,5s ]

Maybe I was dumb that I didn't sense that full house coming, after all there were already 2 fives on the board and he continued reraising, so he had to have at least a pair 3-of-a-kind or 4-of a kind, but I just decided that the odds of that were next to none, and didn't really trust his raises because I caught him reraising with a 3, J before. This happens to me way too often for some reason. And I don't know how to help it aside from memorizing all the odds, which seems like a tedious task.

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Gatlin Dan

08-03-2005, 04:47 AM

#2 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Nov 2004

Location: Wild Bill's Backyard

Posts: 504

In the long run they don't even out. In the long run, you come out ahead. This is provided you are folding when you are suppossed to.

If you are taking hands too far, you are giving some of the edge you have back to the fish. If you are not folding when prudence suggests, you are probably drawing (calling) to things you shouldn't be. If this is the case, you have become a calling station yourself.

At low limits, people will draw badly often. If the people you are playing with are prone to doing this, you have to be really conscious about trying to isolating people by 3-betting when they raise. You force all those potential bad beats out of the pot or they must pay handsomely to play against you when you have a hand.

Giving a free card at any limit is almost always a mistake. At low limits, even giving a cheap card is poor play when so many pots are multiway.

"A lot of fortunes are made on what you don't play."--"Miami" John Cernuto

outphase

08-04-2005, 12:47 AM

#3 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Apr 2005

Posts: 949

This hand isn't a bad beat... you got aggressive at the worse worse points and I'm surprised you weren't raised at the river

Quote:

Originally Posted by lambchopdc

Lets stop talking ABC poker and move on to D, E, and F.

R3N3G4D3

08-04-2005, 06:55 AM

#4 (permalink)

Join Date: Jul 2005

Posts: 16

Just so I know for the future, how should I have played this hand? And when should I have folded? Thanks.

elipsesjeff

08-04-2005, 07:22 AM

#5 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Jul 2004

Location: Northern Virginia

Posts: 4,900

elipsesjeff is an unknown quantity at this point

You played it fine and the pot is big enough you should probably call anyway.

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rubixstreub

08-04-2005, 02:28 PM

#6 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jul 2005

Location: Dallas, TX

Posts: 887

Quote:

Originally Posted by outphase

This hand isn't a bad beat... you got aggressive at the worse worse points and I'm surprised you weren't raised at the river

I'm not sure I understand this? "Worst points" as in unlucky or the wrong play? Should he have called the reraise on the turn and check/called the river? At what point are you thinking you're beat here? I think I would have played this the same way honestly, although I wouldn't have bet the river. But if I had the nut flush I'm capping this all the way? Wrong?

Come give me advice.
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...oker-58488.htm

pokerlearner

08-04-2005, 04:42 PM

#7 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Feb 2005

Location: california

Posts: 366

rubix couldnt have explained it better. Thats the main reason I multitable too. I am a pretty patient player but if i am playing 1 table, after a while i am tempted ot play marginal hands or good hands out of position. Multitabling helps me that way as it keeps impatience in check. You know you are going to get some good hand at some table and would rather play that and fold this marginal hand.

elipsesjeff

08-04-2005, 05:42 PM

#8 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Jul 2004

Location: Northern Virginia

Posts: 4,900

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerlearner

KQs isnt a marginal hand, Plus he has position and had a dream flop. I'm ramming and jamming to make that Ace of spades pay dearly for her draw.

Check out my videos at Grinderschool.com

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Gatlin Dan

08-04-2005, 10:55 PM

#9 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Nov 2004

Location: Wild Bill's Backyard

Posts: 504

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rubix13

Quote:

Originally Posted by outphase

This hand isn't a bad beat... you got aggressive at the worse worse points and I'm surprised you weren't raised at the river

If you are three bet on the river when the board pairs and you have the A high flush, you are almost never going to win this pot. I'd probably check call. I may bet out and call a river raise if he's shown trickiness.

For the most part, in a loose full ring game like this you have to slow way down when the board pairs on the turn or river, even if it is a low pair like fives.

When there is three of a kind on the board, you have to figure you need a boat to have a chance at taking the pot.

"A lot of fortunes are made on what you don't play."--"Miami" John Cernuto

rubixstreub

08-05-2005, 02:00 AM

#10 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jul 2005

Location: Dallas, TX

Posts: 887

I see, but you'd still call this down any day right? Althought that seems to contradict elipsejeff's comment... is this a personal kind of play or is there a more correct answer - jam or call down when the board pairs?

Come give me advice.
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...oker-58488.htm

Element187

08-05-2005, 06:08 AM

#11 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Mar 2005

Location: Orlando, FL

Posts: 802

when there is 3 cards of the same rank on the board, i think there is a HUGE chance im behind to a fullhouse with a flush/straight, and im happy with checking/calling instead of value betting the river.

too often you are beat here, your behind by any pocket pair, or any card that your opponent paired on the board. just not a value raise situation.

"Imagine how it would be to be at the top Making cash money, Go and tour all around the world, Tell stories about all the young girls." - The Prodigy - Girls

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