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A bad beat ?

  
 
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joslin
Old 04-25-2005, 11:20 AM     Post subject: A bad beat ? #1 (permalink)  

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joslin
Man i just ranted in a other post that I lost most of my bankroll due to my father inlaw, curse him ...

Now I am on such a downhill, played limit to rebuild my bankroll, tried to play tight but must admit I played a little bit looser than usual. I didn't win a single hand in two hours. I started out this day by losing a 88 to this guy who played every single hand. flop 5QQ, I knew he didn't have a queen...raised-call, turn 6 raised-call, river K raised-called, he won with K2o.... alright, at least I knew he was loose, lets play I thought to myself. The tabel was a bit tight but weak, sometimes tight and weak looks the same in a short period of time. I thought that I just might win a few hands or at least win ONE...but I can honestly say, the cards eluded me.

How about this hand, did I play this right in your opinion, tried to slowplay it at first, getting a little more into the pot, that didn't work, turned into a check-raise, I knew he didn't put me on anything high at first, he hadn't seen me win a single hand and I hadn't shown a single card to him. I should've betted preflop - right - or would I have won the hand with a higher stack, betted all the way to the river.

Background,
Vandalen most likely didn't have AA so I thought I was ahead, apparently he had KK but who knew, I put him on AK, QQ or JJ.

Now look at ballet, calling all the way with 78s, I know I wouldn't have. Pot commited or what was he thinking ?

Gonna take a few days break and collect my thoughts and figure out my game again.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Game # 63370260 - Texas Hold'em Fixed Limit EUR 0,25/0,50 - Table "Arad"
Game ended 2005-04-25 10:52:08 UTC

Players:
Hobster (EUR 14,50 in seat 1)
kokekorv (EUR 3,50 in seat 2)
joslin (EUR 2,00 in seat 3)
TheHose (EUR 12,75 in seat 4)
krizantem (EUR 7,00 in seat 5)
Vandalen (EUR 6,75 in seat 6)
kalifaxi (EUR 15,75 in seat 8)
Mister_K (EUR 18,75 in seat 9)
ballet (EUR 18,25 in seat 10)

Dealer: Vandalen
Small Blind: kalifaxi (0,25)
Big Blind: Mister_K (0,25)

joslin was dealt: Kc - Ks

ballet Call (0,25)
Hobster Fold
kokekorv Fold
joslin Call (0,25)
TheHose Call (0,25)
krizantem Fold
Vandalen Raise (0,50)
kalifaxi Call (0,25)
Mister_K Fold
ballet Call (0,25)
joslin Raise (0,50)
TheHose Fold
Vandalen Raise (0,50)
kalifaxi Call (0,50)
ballet Call (0,50)
joslin Call (0,25)

Flop 9d - 5s - 3c

kalifaxi Check
ballet Check
joslin Bet (0,25)
Vandalen Raise (0,50)
kalifaxi Fold
ballet Call (0,50)
joslin Raise (0,50)
Vandalen Raise (0,50)
ballet Call (0,50)
joslin All-In (0,25)

Turn 9d - 5s - 3c - 6s

ballet Check
Vandalen Bet (0,50)
ballet Raise (1,00)
Vandalen Raise (1,00)
ballet Call (0,50)

River 9d - 5s - 3c - 6s - 2d

ballet Check
Vandalen Bet (0,50)
ballet Raise (1,00)
Vandalen Raise (1,00)
ballet Raise (1,00)
Vandalen Call (0,50)

ballet shows: 8d - 7d (a straight, nine high)
Vandalen didn't show: Kh - Kd (a pair of kings)

ballet wins: EUR 6,75 side pot (with a straight, nine high)
joslin shows: Kc - Ks (a pair of kings)
ballet wins: EUR 7,25 main pot (with a straight, nine high)
Rake: EUR 0,50
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Element187
Old 04-25-2005, 02:09 PM #2 (permalink)  
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how did losing your bankroll become your father inlaws fault?
"Imagine how it would be to be at the top Making cash money, Go and tour all around the world, Tell stories about all the young girls." - The Prodigy - Girls
 
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The Lizard King
Old 04-25-2005, 02:23 PM #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Element187
how did losing your bankroll become your father inlaws fault?
lol lol
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joslin
Old 04-25-2005, 02:52 PM #4 (permalink)  

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joslin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Element187
how did losing your bankroll become your father inlaws fault?
Dont ask - and you wont need to read the story !
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Estrop
Old 04-25-2005, 04:15 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Yeah it happens.. the other day a guy was sitting at my table with 3x the buyin. I was thinking, he must be pretty good. But no. He called my 6xBB raise with 5 2. I had KQs. Flop comes 57Q. I bet, he calls. Turn is a 4, I bet, he calls. River is a 2. I bet, he reraises. I think for a while.. then call to see what he has.

The way I see it.. He had 5 outs. The two remaining 5's, and the three 2's. It's just luck. I think I win this 9 times out of 10.
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ChezJ
Old 04-25-2005, 06:05 PM #6 (permalink)  
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ChezJ is an unknown quantity at this point
 pot contains 17BB before the flop. 20BB by the time it gets to ballet. he has a gutshot (4 outs) plus a backdoor flush draw (1.5 outs) so he needs something like 8:1 to call. the pot is laying him 20:2 (10:1), which is a good overlay, plus he has huge implied odds if he hits his hand because his straight is hidden. so his first call is almost ok, but he should have realized you guys were about to cap it, giving him true odds of only 25:4 (6:1) on the flop. still, the implied odds argument holds true, as was proven from the way the hand played out.

bottom line, the guy made a gutsy cold-call pre-flop hoping to bust your high pockets with his drawing hand, then played correctly post-flop and got paid off for his gamble. this is just further proof that the way to win the big multiway pots in low limit holdem is to play more medium suited connectors. they crack AA/KK all the time because, unlike AQ/AJ/KQ/etc, they are: (1) never dominated; (2) usually drawing live; (3) easy to fold when they miss; and (4) usually good vs multiple opponents when they hit.

ChezJ

p.s. the correct way to protect your hand was to check-call the flop and check-raise the turn. but obviously you would have lost in this case.
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Element187
Old 04-25-2005, 06:08 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joslin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Element187
how did losing your bankroll become your father inlaws fault?
Dont ask - and you wont need to read the story !
i still fail to see how this is your father inlaws fault.. it was your money, you were sitting there with him the entire time, letting him help you gamble..
"Imagine how it would be to be at the top Making cash money, Go and tour all around the world, Tell stories about all the young girls." - The Prodigy - Girls
 
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Trikflow77
Old 04-25-2005, 08:21 PM #8 (permalink)  
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ArcticKnight
Old 04-26-2005, 05:56 AM     Post subject: Re: A bad beat ? #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joslin

played limit to rebuild my bankroll

Just curious, if you are playing limit to rebuild your bankroll, I assume you feel you can beat the limit game. It does sound a bit strange..sorta of like I lost my money betting at the racetrack, so I am playing blackjack so I can rebuild my bankroll....to go back to the racetrack....
Gone golfing ..see ya in the Fall of 2006
PS. What did the snail on the turtle's back say?
Wheeeeeeeee........
 
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joslin
Old 04-26-2005, 08:59 AM     Post subject: Re: A bad beat ? #10 (permalink)  

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joslin
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcticKnight
Just curious, if you are playing limit to rebuild your bankroll, I assume you feel you can beat the limit game. It does sound a bit strange..sorta of like I lost my money betting at the racetrack, so I am playing blackjack so I can rebuild my bankroll....to go back to the racetrack....
Might seem odd but I am trying to transfer from limit to NL. This is due to the fact that the NL seem to contain more subtelties and possibilities. I feel I can beat the limit game but I can't beat the NL game, hence play Black Jack to fund your play at the races. Although that analogy sucketh...

also, I am not ready to put in a couple of hundred $$ to learn the basics. I am trying to learn NL without losing alot of cash, I am not a gambling type of guy. I would say I am the typical tight player that makes very few gut-feeling decisions (or I wish).
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Fnord
Old 04-26-2005, 09:10 AM     Post subject: Re: A bad beat ? #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joslin
I would say I am the typical tight player that makes very few gut-feeling decisions (or I wish).
Gotta gamb00l smart to beat the bigger games. Camping just gets you robbed left and right by aggro players.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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joslin
Old 04-26-2005, 09:19 AM #12 (permalink)  

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joslin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Element187
...help you gamble..
exactly...help... thank you for the help, it was really helpful !?!?
I really need that kinda help....

Yes, i know I am such a big baby, I played drunk and lost the money, it's my own fault.
Try this though, play together with your father inlaw, one of the really big fishes out there, someone you would usually steal the entire stack from. Then, tell him he is a lousy player, see how he reacts when that punk only half his age that just started playing poker tells him he sucks. He has only played on and off with his as crappy friends for 30years now. Nah, it is better to just lose the money, smiling, and then complain about it here.

This is how he plays:
deal: 9h 4h <---great a flushdraw.....
- calling the big raise
flop: 8c Jh As <---- only need two more hearts.
- check - call
turn Jc <----- but we could get a 9 or 4 on the river for 2pair
- check - call
river 9c
- Great 2pair
- raise - call
hand is of course lost to something like ATs or whatever..
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joslin
Old 04-26-2005, 09:27 AM     Post subject: Re: A bad beat ? #13 (permalink)  

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joslin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
Originally Posted by joslin
I would say I am the typical tight player that makes very few gut-feeling decisions (or I wish).
Gotta gamb00l smart to beat the bigger games. Camping just gets you robbed left and right by aggro players.
Yes, that I have found out by experience. Just playing tight won't work. But I'll get there eventually, no need to be hasty, and I will learn all the important tools along the way, like potodds and shit...

But I am pretty good at camping...

Actually, playing longhand seems to give you a possibiblity for a tighter game than say 6max, thats where I intend to start out.
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Fnord
Old 04-26-2005, 11:21 AM     Post subject: Re: A bad beat ? #14 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joslin
Actually, playing longhand seems to give you a possibiblity for a tighter game than say 6max, thats where I intend to start out.
6 max is all about the blinds, unless you have live one(s) (then they are the blinds!)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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joslin
Old 04-26-2005, 02:40 PM #15 (permalink)  

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joslin
I can see that 6max is about the blinds...
But on a 10 player table you should be able to play a tighter game - right - playing it out a bit more ?

Any advice on how to transfer from limit to NL.
In limit I tend to fold about 70% preflop and then maybe 50% postflop.
Should I loosen up a bit for NL, since people tend to be a bit more 'on guard', looking out for tight players, folding to a raise.

What would be a good % on calling preflop, raising and folding in NL 10p full table... (just to get a general idea, a regular table)
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Element187
Old 04-26-2005, 02:45 PM #16 (permalink)  
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NL you should play the same preflop folding %

get used to what AK looks like preflop.


if your beating limit, stick with it...


most of all, you need a bigger bankroll to play at those stakes.
"Imagine how it would be to be at the top Making cash money, Go and tour all around the world, Tell stories about all the young girls." - The Prodigy - Girls
 
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