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Hermann the Lombard
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09-08-2007, 11:55 PM
Post subject: Baby Steps 6 - Hard Hearted
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 270
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PokerStars 0.02/0.04 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
Preflop: Hero is UTG with J , Q .
Hero calls, 2 folds, Button raises, SB calls, 1 fold, Hero calls.
Flop: (7 SB) T, 2, 9 (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, Button calls, SB calls.
Turn: (5 BB) K (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, Button calls, SB folds.
River: (7 BB) 8 (2 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, Button caps, Hero calls.
Final Pot: 15 BB
So, was my only mistake re-raising the river (and calling the cap)? I felt very dumb after the hand, but losing can do that. Basically I knew that only the A  and Q beat me, but I think the re-raise should have told me he had one of those...and certainly the cap did.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
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ok, 3betting is bad on the river bud but calling the cap is even worse.
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daven
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up
Posts: 5,804
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I mostly like your play until the river, although I'm always a little uncertain about open-limping UTG. That last heart is killer, I check-call, or raise-call this street. When there is such an obvious chance I'm behind I try not to get involved in heavy betting (one of the leaks I'm trying to fix!). 3-betting was a mistake, but you know that.
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KoRnholio
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,165
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Yeah I just call the river raise. That raise alone is probably Qh or Ah, so make the crying call instead of the spew raise and then bawling call :P
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Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
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btw, c/c river is the best play against a normal player as worst hand should never look you up here.
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Hermann the Lombard
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 270
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"Bawling call" . . . I like that. I'm just sorry I made that. 
Yes, c/c makes vastly more sense. I'm not going to lay it down but let me get out with minimal further damage...
BTW big, thanks for the videos. I think I have a ways to go before I can really absorb what you're teaching, but I'm here to learn.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Bet river, usually fold to raise.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
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I'd like to hear your argument for betting the river Fnord, you think worse hands are calling enough here?
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Yes, also Clarkmeister Theorm applies.
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Yes, also Clarkmeister Theorm applies.
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whats that?
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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DrivingDog
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 923
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CM Theorem = Bet/fold if your hand's not good enough to call a re-raise with.
Opponent will only raise Ah or Qh in this spot, but will probably call with any heart and some hands that don't have a heart.
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"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).
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DrivingDog
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 923
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...should add that c/c becomes profitable here against meathead opponents who will raise with any heart, but those are fairly rare even at the microlimits i would imagine.
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"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by DrivingDog
CM Theorem = Bet/fold if your hand's not good enough to call a re-raise with.
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Lol how does that deserve to have its own name? Or do you mean b/f as opposed to c/c?
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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DrivingDog
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 923
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pelion
Quote:
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Originally Posted by DrivingDog
CM Theorem = Bet/fold if your hand's not good enough to call a re-raise with.
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Lol how does that deserve to have its own name? Or do you mean b/f as opposed to c/c? |
CMT was meant to apply specifically to situations in which the fourth flush card hits on the river. You should bet/fold any non-heart hand oop because you might get a better hand to fold and if they raise they have you beat.
In this situation it is somewhat different because we have a decent flush ourselves. Still, b/f is probably best here because villian will probably check behind any non-heart or low-heart hand but might call one last bet with some of those same hands. And if you're raised, it's usually a pretty easy fold with the third nuts - it's a rare opponent who would raise with the 2-Th or as a bluff here.
Of course if this situation arose three times in a row against the same opponent and he always raised your bet you'd have to consider the possibility that he is one of those rare opponents. The second time i'd probably call him down with any heart and if it happened a third time i'd probably call him down with TPGK or better.
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"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." (George Bush).
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Hermann the Lombard
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Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 270
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by DrivingDog
if it happened a third time i'd probably call him down with TPGK or better.
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I don't know, I'm new to this, but you might also add him to your buddy list.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...umor-12858.htm
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