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Ax 6 max criteria - please weigh in......

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ArcticKnight

02-01-2006, 01:39 AM Post subject: Ax 6 max criteria - please weigh in......

#1 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Dec 2004

Location: golf course

Posts: 416

I'm building off a question that Xanadu posted.

I found one of the most difficult things to find consensus on is how to play Ax and Axs in 6 max from various positions.

For example, I know some people will limp weak suited aces UTG and MP, some raise, and others fold them.

Lets suppose you where at a neutral table (neither loose/tight nor passive/aggressive), what are your starting criteria for for Ax and Axs?

For me I would tend to start from the following:

NOTE: All hands below would be opening with a raise.
UTG A8s and AJos
MP A7s and A10os
CO A2s and A7os
Button A2s and A2os

Naturally, these criteria will change according to the "real" conditions" of the table (and how the players in the blinds play when you are CO or Button), but it would be interesting to see where people start.

While opening with a raise 98% of the time, I'll sometimes limp UTG and MP weak suited aces at loose/passive tables, but generally I find the most difficult decsions are with what to do with a hand like A6s from MP, for example...Ive folded, limped and raised this hand..

Please weigh in and share your thoughts. It would be nice to hear what people have to say about one of the most difficult starting hand questions in 6 max.

Gone golfing ..see ya in the Fall of 2006
PS. What did the snail on the turtle's back say?
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pokerfanatic

02-01-2006, 01:51 AM

#2 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: 6max limit tables

Posts: 1,968

I'm not sure what you mean here, limping UTG or Open limping from any spot in 6max sucks, I can only think of a handful of situations it might be correct to do so...

I personally think your starting hands are dynamic as ever in 6max, even at one table the ranges you need to play will change hour to hour sometimes... I personally run 25% VP$IP and don't play a hand as weak as A8s EP 4 handed UTG is treated much different then 5 or 6 handed, so it depends how many players you are referring to as well... King Yao's book has a great short handed section in it so I don't want to go into details about this... I don't want to take away from that...

HU, 3 handed, 4handed 5/6 handed all need adjustments in starting hands... though it's hard to pinpoint an exact hand that you can always play EP unless you over kill it and say something like AJ...

Just a couple genial thoughts nothing spectacular, read King Yao’s book…

“Dream as if you’ll live forever. Live as if you’ll die today.” ~ James Dean ~

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stingo0

02-01-2006, 01:55 AM

#3 (permalink)

Join Date: Dec 2005

Posts: 33

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerfanatic

I'm not sure what you mean here, limping UTG or Open limping from any spot in 6max sucks, I can only think of a handful of situations it might be correct to do so...

I personally think your starting hands are dynamic as ever in 6max, even at one table the ranges you need to play will change hour to hour sometimes... I personally run 25% VP$IP and don't play a hand as weak as A8s EP 4 handed UTG is treated much different then 5 or 6 handed, so it depends how many players you are referring to as well... King Yao's book has a great short handed section in it so I don't want to go into details about this... I don't want to take

away from that...

HU, 3 handed, 4handed 5/6 handed all need adjustments in starting hands... though it's hard to pinpoint an exact hand that you can always play EP unless you over kill it and say something like AJ...

Just a couple genial thoughts nothing spectacular, read King Yao’s book…

Ok I am ordering King Yao. Are there other decent books on SH?

pokerfanatic

02-01-2006, 02:03 AM

#4 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: 6max limit tables

Posts: 1,968

Quote:

Originally Posted by stingo0

Ok I am ordering King Yao. Are there other decent books on SH?

Meah HEP4AP is ok but I thought King Yao's book was about 10times bettor then HEP4AP... but both might be good to read... however be aware that some of the material wont apply to small stakes games, so keep that in mind...

ArcticKnight

02-01-2006, 02:05 AM

#5 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2004

Location: golf course

Posts: 416

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokerfanatic

I'm not sure what you mean here, limping UTG or Open limping from any spot in 6max sucks, I can only think of a handful of situations it might be correct to do so...

I have edited the post...sorry, just assumed people would know that I meant opening with a raise, unless otherwise noted. my bad.....

Gone golfing ..see ya in the Fall of 2006
PS. What did the snail on the turtle's back say?
Wheeeeeeeee........

Xanadu

02-01-2006, 02:25 AM

#6 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: May 2005

Location: st. paul, MO

Posts: 966

As far as changes for # of people at the table, that is clear, and isn't really a change at all. You just drop a position when you drop a player. UTG (CO)4handed = MP(CO) 5handed = CO 6 handed and are all opened the same with the same opponents to the left. The only difference will be when the pot has already been opened.

euphoricism

02-01-2006, 02:42 AM

#7 (permalink)

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Your list seems a little on the loose side for my tastes, but its not a bad list. Its "about right".

I dont raise A8s at a standard table, unless the table "tells" me I can -- which, due to my quest for perfect table selection, is fairly often. But at a "standard" 6max people love to threebet, and you're going to be dominated just about oh.. all of the time. I'm probably tightest UTG, probably way tighter UTG than I am from the blinds.

MP: Here i'll throw in A8s.

CO: I'll put in Ax. I'm actually probably most "truly" aggressive with my hands here. I've noticed people defending more from button raises than CO raises (they don't "look like" steals. Ha!) So, with table selection, get a tighty on your left, and people who fold their blinds too much on his left...

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euphoricism

02-01-2006, 02:43 AM

#8 (permalink)

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Hepfap's SH section is quite good, I thought.

<Staxalax> Honestly, #flopturnriver is the one thing that has improved my game the most.
Directions to join the #flopturnriver Internet Relay Chat - Come chat with us!

pokerfanatic

02-01-2006, 02:59 AM

#9 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: 6max limit tables

Posts: 1,968

Quote:

Originally Posted by euphoricism

Hepfap's SH section is quite good, I thought.

you also havn't read King Yao... i thought HEP4AP was good till i read it...

ArcticKnight

02-01-2006, 03:24 AM

#10 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Dec 2004

Location: golf course

Posts: 416

Quote:

Originally Posted by euphoricism

Hepfap's SH section is quite good, I thought.

Yes, I agree, but much of the Short Handed section it is about HU play (which is very helpful, though).

Gone golfing ..see ya in the Fall of 2006
PS. What did the snail on the turtle's back say?
Wheeeeeeeee........

Ltrain

02-01-2006, 03:02 PM

#11 (permalink)

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Join Date: Aug 2005

Location: Miami, Florida

Posts: 514

To me it depends on the blinds. I will raise Ax from the CO or button if they will regularly fold to a raise or continuation bet based on their HUD stats, but otherwise, I may even consider folding a hand like A,2. Having loose calls from the blinds through the turn on a regular basis is too hard to play with big little; I would rather steal raise with two broadway cards in this situation to double my chances at top pair.

"Don't judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes. Then you are a mile away, and have his shoes." - Anon.

roymunson451

02-06-2006, 08:38 PM

#12 (permalink)

Join Date: Dec 2005

Posts: 57

King Yao? What is the name of the book, or is it an ebook?

Thanks

midas06

02-07-2006, 01:11 AM

#13 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: NZ

Posts: 2,196

"Weighing the Odds in Hold-Em Poker"

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/093...Fencoding=UTF8

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