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Ass Pat (5cd)

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LeFou

11-20-2006, 08:00 PM Post subject: Ass Pat (5cd)

#1 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2004

Location: Dallas, TX

Posts: 2,361

correct to call the end, right? surely I'm not supposed to find the fold, just in case opp is a tool? any notes on predraw play?

PokerStars Game #7103569964: 5 Card Draw Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2006/11/20 - 15:58:00 (ET)
Table 'Euneus' 6-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: IvanDi ($22.10 in chips)
Seat 2: kleve97 ($11 in chips)
Seat 3: tacpro ($18.75 in chips)
Seat 4: otros123 ($22.60 in chips)
Seat 5: NuWere ($77.70 in chips)
Seat 6: Godown52 ($7.85 in chips)
IvanDi: posts small blind $0.25
kleve97: posts big blind $0.50
*** DEALING HANDS ***
Dealt to NuWere [4c 3s As 2s 5s]
tacpro: folds
otros123: folds
NuWere: calls $0.50
Godown52: folds
IvanDi: raises $0.50 to $1
kleve97: calls $0.50
NuWere: raises $0.50 to $1.50
IvanDi: calls $0.50
kleve97: calls $0.50
IvanDi: discards 2 cards
kleve97: discards 1 card
NuWere: stands pat
IvanDi: bets $1
kleve97: folds
NuWere: calls $1
*** SHOW DOWN ***
IvanDi: shows [Qs Kd Kc Kh Jc] (three of a kind, Kings)
NuWere: shows [4c 3s As 2s 5s] (a straight, Ace to Five)
NuWere collected $6.20 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $6.50 | Rake $0.30
Seat 1: IvanDi (small blind) showed [Qs Kd Kc Kh Jc] and lost with three of a kind, Kings
Seat 2: kleve97 (big blind) folded after the Draw
Seat 3: tacpro folded before the Draw (didn't bet)
Seat 4: otros123 folded before the Draw (didn't bet)
Seat 5: NuWere showed [4c 3s As 2s 5s] and won ($6.20) with a straight, Ace to Five
Seat 6: Godown52 (button) folded before the Draw (didn't bet)

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LeFou

11-20-2006, 08:03 PM

#2 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2004

Location: Dallas, TX

Posts: 2,361

btw this guy draws 2 all the time.

Renton

11-20-2006, 08:08 PM

#3 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: Atlanta, GA, USA

Posts: 5,991

aren't you supposed to raise on the end here?

Jimmy Mac

11-20-2006, 08:14 PM

#4 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: May 2005

Location: Drinking your milkshake.

Posts: 950

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renton

aren't you supposed to raise on the end here?

The villain led into a pat hand.

LeFou

11-20-2006, 08:30 PM

#5 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2004

Location: Dallas, TX

Posts: 2,361

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renton

aren't you supposed to raise on the end here?

I considered my call to be crying.

Renton

11-20-2006, 08:39 PM

#6 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: Atlanta, GA, USA

Posts: 5,991

well, i don't think you can ever fold here because of the pot odds you are getting. If he had drawn one or stood pat and then led into you then that might be an entirely different situation.

Also, is the lead into a pat hand to be taken very seriously at these stakes?

Anosmic

11-20-2006, 08:40 PM

#7 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: Sweden

Posts: 999

If the play is anything like Paradise you I could find a raise here.

But folding would be outrageous. 5:1 and he's behind like 99% of the time (okay, with the donk, less, but more than 20%)

Unless you've got a great read on him you've got to at least call this.

Blah blah Op Blah blah

Faith in Jesus Christ is +EV. That is all.

dsaxton

11-20-2006, 11:21 PM

#8 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2005

Location: Arlington, VA

Posts: 2,667

Why in the world are you open-limping with a pat hand, especially in the cutoff? Raise. In fact, I wouldn't be open-limping with any hand outside the blinds.

Folding after the draw is ridiculous. It's a question of calling or raising, and the play you choose is almost completely read-dependent. I would just call absent a read that my opponent is an idiot, since I'm risking two bets to win one.

Also, it's worth noting that players typically check-raise pat hands if they fill up, which makes a full house less likely than you might think.

Fnord

11-20-2006, 11:42 PM

#9 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,333

Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

I see so much stupid pat hand play in online draw that I'm almost always seeing a showdown unless squeezed 3-way or against another pat hand held by a player with an absurdly low bluff frequency (did that yesterday.)

Leading trips into a pat is just classic donk and it took me a while to figure that one out. It's predictable enough that we should consider a raise here.

What's really funny is when I pat bluff and get donked into. Thanks for saving me the bet!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Miffed22001

11-22-2006, 01:49 PM

#10 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!

Posts: 8,181

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmy Mac

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renton

aren't you supposed to raise on the end here?

The villain led into a pat hand.

Do not overestimate this. Too many players dont understand a stand pat.

Quote:

I considered my call to be crying.

This is dumb. If he makes a boat he knows you are going to bet behind so he c/r's hoping youll three bet (which you should) and he caps and you get owned. Also, from other HH's youve posted, im not surprised he led three kings
This was an autoraise and a call of a three bet if it happened, more likely a cap/4bet. At these stakes so many players dont have a clue that trips are no good against this action.

btw, i dont mind your predraw play if you think someone will raise say QQxxx behnd you or something relativly strong. Id still raise though nearly always in the ope someone will find a hand or defend a blind hard.

Miffed22001

11-22-2006, 01:50 PM

#11 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!

Posts: 8,181

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

the last bit of this is so true its unreal. (sorry for double post)

kurto

01-16-2007, 08:23 PM Post subject: Almost never fold.... usually raise

#12 (permalink)

Join Date: Jan 2007

Location: Northeast

Posts: 4

I recently checked out the 5cd on pokerstars. They play is so abymissal that I've been playing it almost exclusively.

I have only played the .25/.50 PL tables and I would say that you can find a fold here only one out of every 10 players or so (you need notes/a read).

Miffed22001

01-18-2007, 02:17 PM

#13 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!

Posts: 8,181

this is never a fold and always a raise post-draw and its not even close.

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