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RiverMonkey
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03-15-2005, 07:05 PM
Post subject: AQo from the blinds?
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 446
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How do you prefer to play AQo from the blinds?
Assume (i) two limpers, (ii) 3 limpers, (iii) 5 limpers, (iv) 7 limpers, and (v) family pot @ a 10-handed table.
(a) small blind, and (b) big-blind?
State assumptions about game conditions as appropriate. e.g. loose, tight, passive etc.
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AidanN20
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 106
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Bet it all the time.
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Dont F' with me, I can grind it out like a bot
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RiverMonkey
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Flush
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 446
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You mean "raise it every time"?
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Yeah raise it or just call a raise unless the raiser has a wide range (then consider a 3-bet.)
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RiverMonkey
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Flush
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 446
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Same question except with (I) AJo, and (II) ATo
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
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Check/Call. Muck ATo against a credible raise. Muck AJo against a tight raise.
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RiverMonkey
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Flush
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 446
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Yeah raise it or just call a raise unless the raiser has a wide range (then consider a 3-bet.)
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Right, obviously you're not going to fold. What considerations do you look at to decide between limping, raising and calling a raise, and 3-betting?
Your opponents' range of raising hands is one good thing to consider.
What else?
I'm interested to know if people have a default way you play the hand on say a loose to semi-loose table?
In an unraised pot, I personally switch it up between limping, and raising, but would like to have a more systematic thought process behind deciding which way to go given a set of game conditions and player variables.
AQo hasn't been very friendly to me, and I hear various "urban myths" about it all the time like "Doyle says don't play it" and crap like that (if he ever did say something like that I almost guarantee that (a) there was some definitive, concrete context behind the comment, and (b) he was almost certainly referring to some NL situation(s)). Anyhow, obviously, AQo is a good hand, and can even withstand some pre-flop raises. I'm kinda on a rant/tangent here, but my point is, I don't like to listen to parrots that make those kinds of empty statements ... if they can't back it with an explanation etc., IMHO, those are the kind of people that just aren't worth listening to/talking about poker with. (Thank god for FTR ...... you rarely have to listen to parrots here  )
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RiverMonkey
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Flush
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 446
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Check/Call. Muck ATo against a credible raise. Muck AJo against a tight raise.
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Nice, couldn't agree more.
I think we'd all agree that suitedness changes everything ........
I personally NEVER find a good reason to fold the suited version of these hands, and with enough limpers, I'm raising that biatch to build a bigger pot irrespective of whether there's a raise in front of me, and the raiser's range of raising hands. Please tell me this isn't a leak?
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Chicago_Kid
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: People let me tell you about my best friends...
Posts: 1,132
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by RiverMonkey
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Check/Call. Muck ATo against a credible raise. Muck AJo against a tight raise.
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Nice, couldn't agree more.
I think we'd all agree that suitedness changes everything ........
I personally NEVER find a good reason to fold the suited version of these hands, and with enough limpers, I'm raising that biatch to build a bigger pot irrespective of whether there's a raise in front of me, and the raiser's range of raising hands. Please tell me this isn't a leak? |
I'm learning to despise most any non-suited, non-premium hand in EP. Against most raises, if I call in the blinds and miss the flop, I'm check/folding unless I get 4-5 loose callers on an uncoordinated flop, then I'll call. I've just been getting creamed in EP (blind or not) with anything other than level 1/2 hands. Maybe this gives up some value, but I figure I'm saving myself cash here until I figure this out 
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"Been gone so long, forgot how to poker"
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Chicago_Kid
I've just been getting creamed in EP (blind or not) with anything other than level 1/2 hands. Maybe this gives up some value, but I figure I'm saving myself cash here until I figure this out |
So limp KQo and play fit or fold.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by RiverMonkey
I personally NEVER find a good reason to fold the suited version of these hands, and with enough limpers, I'm raising that biatch to build a bigger pot irrespective of whether there's a raise in front of me, and the raiser's range of raising hands. Please tell me this isn't a leak? |
Cold-calling is sometimes called for here. If it's not multi-way, I'll muck outside of my blinds to a rock tight raiser. I just don't feel the need to give any action to some idiot playing 8 tables waiting for the top 5% of so of hands unless I have a monster to fight back with.
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RiverMonkey
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Flush
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 446
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Fnord/Jeff/Hyper etc., any comments on my questions in the follow-up post (the one right before I brought up suitedness). The questions related to game & player considerations for choosing between raising versus limping/calling.
Thanks a million!
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RiverMonkey
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Flush
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 446
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Cold-calling is sometimes called for here. If it's not multi-way, I'll muck outside of my blinds to a rock tight raiser. I just don't feel the need to give any action to some idiot playing 8 tables waiting for the top 5% of so of hands unless I have a monster to fight back with.
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Good point ..... AQs, AJs, ATs aren't much good in a HU or 3-way pot when you're up against AA.
Incidentally, what's your cut-off for considering a pot to be multi-way; 4 or more?
Like the dumb monkey that I am I brought up Heads-Up situations, now we're getting into the complicated topic of blinds-defense which is a whole other can of worms that I haven't really looked into much (yet!).
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by RiverMonkey
AQo hasn't been very friendly to me, and I hear various "urban myths" about it all the time like "Doyle says don't play it" and crap like that (if he ever did say something like that I almost guarantee that (a) there was some definitive, concrete context behind the comment, and (b) he was almost certainly referring to some NL situation(s)).
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Doyle was refering to DEEP money full table NL, where AQo will often make a pay-off hand. In limit I can pay-off a lot of single bets and still show a profit with all the times I scoop.
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RiverMonkey
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Flush
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 446
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by RiverMonkey
AQo hasn't been very friendly to me, and I hear various "urban myths" about it all the time like "Doyle says don't play it" and crap like that (if he ever did say something like that I almost guarantee that (a) there was some definitive, concrete context behind the comment, and (b) he was almost certainly referring to some NL situation(s)).
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Doyle was refering to DEEP money full table NL, where AQo will often make a pay-off hand. In limit I can pay-off a lot of single bets and still show a profit with all the times I scoop. |
Even though I wasn't directly familiar with that AQ/Doyle reference ... I just knew the various parrots I heard this from were way off base and taking it totally out of context. Don't you just hate it when they hear some anecdote like that, forget the main point behind it and then go around and misapply and spread that advice. Actually, no, I don't hate it.  I like it. No, I love it! Instead of being annoyed at their stupidity, I should relish, savour and encourage it. Keep squawking birdies!!!
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