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apply some specific SSH concepts to 6max

  
 
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edudlive
Old 01-09-2006, 12:08 AM     Post subject: apply some specific SSH concepts to 6max #1 (permalink)  
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I just got my copy of SSH and while I'm going along reading it (trying to understand how to apply them to a full table situation but also, and more importantly, how to change them to apply to 6max...where I'll be playing)

On page 80 and 82 it talks about "tight games" and "loose games" and the hand requirements for the respective games. It describes a tight game as 3-5 people to the flop and a loose game as 6-8 players to the flop.

What can I consider a tight 6max game and a loose 6max game? What other modifications do I need to make beforehand to better understand the concepts as applied to 6max the first time I read it?

(Yeah, I've read the sticky in here about shorthanded limit)
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midas06
Old 01-09-2006, 12:34 AM #2 (permalink)  
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A 'loose' 6max game is around 4-6 players to the flop if unraised.

A 'tight' 6max game is 2-3.

You'll find more loose games than tight at your limits.
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mike4066
Old 01-09-2006, 12:38 PM #3 (permalink)  
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I wouldn't try to apply the starting hand charts from SSHE to short handed. Those charts are designed for full right with alot of opponents to finance your hands.

Also I think midas has it right.
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Xanadu
Old 01-09-2006, 09:59 PM #4 (permalink)  
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At a shorthanded table, the value of of pairs and high cards goes up, and the value of suitedness and connectedness go down. Unlike full ring, you can't add a lot of hands to your starting requirements as the table gets looser. I think the adjustments to make are to raise with a few more hands in late position with limpers (one distinction between full ring and shorthanded is that in full ring late position you raise more hands with more limpers, but in the short game, you raise fewer hands with more limpers), and to call a little more liberally out of the blinds when there are a lot of limpers.

To see how hand values change as the number of players at the table changes, here are some charts that show the expected value of each hand going up against random hands that all stay in to showdown.

http://wizardofodds.com/holdem/10players.html

At the bottom of the page you can select 2,3,4,6,8, or 10 player hand rankings.

10 handed, KQo, K9s, and JTs run roughly equal in value under these conditions, and lay about half way between 88 and 99.

6 handed, the K9s only runs as good as KJo, KQo and JTs still run about the same, but are at about the level of 88 instead of clearly better.

4 handed, KQo has very much outstripped K9s and JTs, but now 77 is nearly as strong (the value of pocket pairs increases drastically once you get this shorthanded). JTs has fallen off to the level of KJo.

Once you are heads up, The top 7 hands are all pocket pairs, and only AKs is abetter non pair holding than 77.

These charts are more meaningful the fewer players at the table and the looser the table (remember it is assuming no one folds all the way to the river).

Probably the biggest difference between 10handed and 6 handed is that in 10 handed you limp a lot more hands than you raise. In 6 handed you rarely limp and raise almost every hand you play outside the blinds.

I think it is difficult to apply much of SSH material on starting hands to short games. A 6handed game is like the first 4 people folding at a full ring game. SSH just isn't written for tables where the first 4 people fold. In full ring, you typically want to open raise in these situations, just as you do 6max.
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pokerfanatic
Old 01-09-2006, 11:01 PM #5 (permalink)  
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applying SSH Full Ring hand chart to 6max or SH... you might as well hang yourself... you'll get ran right over...
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Ragnar4
Old 01-13-2006, 11:02 AM #6 (permalink)  
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Oddly,

SSH suggests that if you're at a short handed table, you should assume the first 3 folded and play from there.

So at a 6 handed table, it's like you're always in Middle position and better.

the only call I don't like is any two suited cards from the SB. This call REALLY bothers me because I play 3/6 and it makes no sense to toss in on any two suited cards because I'm $1 commited. It BARELY makes sense if I were already $2 commited with at least 4 players in front of me then my 10.776 percent of the time that I hit a 2 flush flop is correctally financed.

J7s and Q8s are very questionable too. I agree with doyle on those two hands and think they are garbage, but in a loose limit game, maybe they'd be profitable. but wouldn't I look like an idiot if I caught a dominated straight at a table full of schmucks
The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here?
 
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Old 01-13-2006, 05:25 PM #7 (permalink)  
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These are the adjustments:

Value of suitedness decreases
Value of connectedness decreases
Value of high cards increases
Value of kickers decreases

So A9 should theoretically be playable in 6 max because sometimes a pair of aces will be good for you (depends on a lot of things, but this is more true than in full ring)

A good strategy would probably be raising at least 15% of the time in 6max

this is just what you would get out of theoretical analysis - I don't play 6max and I tend to loosen too much when my full ring table BECOMES 6 handed
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