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bigspenda73

04-13-2007, 07:01 AM Post subject: Another Omaheeeezy Question

#1 (permalink)

Straight Flush

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bigspenda73 will become famous soon enough

Be polite, I'm still a total total noob at this game.

$25 PLO 6max $33 effective stacks

2 limpers
Hero completes SB with :Kc: :Kd: :Qh:

BB checks

Flop ($1) :Ks: :Qs: :Td:
Hero bets $1, 2 folds, CO raises to $4, Hero...?

Do we want to get it all-in here? Pretty sure I am behind AJ/J9 here but am I ever too far behind with a set? He could be doing this with TT...maybe...

Anyways I ended up getting it all-in on the flop in like 5bets.

Turn:

River:

Villian had :As: :Jh:

So I play bad but I thought he might have had pair+FD.

If he has :Js: :Ts: I am a slight favorite but that is the best spot I can put myself in. I really didn't want to peel a turn card and lose all equity if the board paired.

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glass_onion

04-13-2007, 03:01 PM

#2 (permalink)

Join Date: Apr 2007

Posts: 23

Its a pretty tricky situation thats common. At PLO25, i'd assume dude has AJ st8 95% of the time. Still, you are basically 50/50 if he has a lower set 5% of the time, so you can't be faulted for getting it in flop OOP.

Think this over:
What your line if you call and turn pairs. C/R? What if he checks behind, you'll have to fire river, and he might not call.

Are you comfortable pushing a turn if the spade draw hits? What do you think the odds are he folds (25% is my guess).

LSS, you are never making a terrible mistake felting here. You will mostly have pot odds to call a turn push if you miss, but if you hit FH he might not PAY YOU.

KoRnholio

04-13-2007, 06:13 PM

#3 (permalink)

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Yeah this is the nuts or nuts+ (ie, nut straight+flush or boat draw) almost always. I mean, you have top set, what worse hand is he going to raise on that board besides something like QQ or TT + flush draw? This is especially true at 25NL where people are mortally afraid of raising the nuts.

Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.

bigspenda73

04-13-2007, 07:11 PM

#4 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jul 2006

Location: Pwnsylvania

Posts: 7,545

So I just have to c/c the turn and c/f the river UI?

glass_onion

04-13-2007, 08:39 PM

#5 (permalink)

Join Date: Apr 2007

Posts: 23

reread my first reply again and really think it over. The best thing you can do on these forums is rather than take someone's advice is take it, assume they are wrong, and try to reason out why. If you can't prove it wrong, try to reason why it is right. This is how you will get the most out of the forum.

bigspenda73

04-13-2007, 09:02 PM

#6 (permalink)

Straight Flush

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Quote:

Originally Posted by glass_onion

careful

KoRnholio

04-14-2007, 12:16 AM

#7 (permalink)

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Another kernel of wisdom: This is why it pays a lot to be in position. If he checks to you on the turn and the flush or boat draw hits, you can bet and often he will fold. This is because his hand just got very devalued and he risks having to call another bet on the river if he wants to show it down.

Being out of position you really can't do much since if you just call, he will pin you on either a set or flush draw and fire a blank turn (which the majority of the time). If you hit, you either have to bet into him, or go for a check raise that will usually have him checking behind instead.

Prognosis for top set out of position against likely straight = very poor.

Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.

Fnord

04-14-2007, 12:24 AM

#8 (permalink)

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Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

I check this flop and pray the board pairs so I can stack someone.

Call down 2 barrels (hence I don't want to build the pot.)
Often fold to a third if I think I'm no good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

glass_onion

04-14-2007, 02:21 PM

#9 (permalink)

Join Date: Apr 2007

Posts: 23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

I check this flop and pray the board pairs so I can stack someone.

Call down 2 barrels (hence I don't want to build the pot.)
Often fold to a third if I think I'm no good.

Just for reference, how often do you think a naked st8 will pay you off on the turn, with 2ish PSB behind, when the board pairs? Specificially, you are saying:

FLop: C/ he pots/ call
Turn: (board pairs): You bet out or C/R? Either way I see him shutting down 80% of the time.

Understand that you are not drawing profitably with top set against a made st8 (or flush) if you only get to see the turn card (assuming he is potting) unless you think that implied odds more than make up the equity loss. Moreover, you will be 25% on the turn if you don't fill up, meaning again you can't profitably call a PSB without lots of money behind and some reason to think he will pay off.

LSS, if you are calling you have to have some read that says he is either a call monkey, or someone capable of laying down. Stack sizes have to be decent for both, so he isn't pot committed (or thinks he is). And you will have to bluff a flush card, period, or it won't be +EV. Your recent play and his recent play come into these calcs/reads.

If this situation arose and you were both at 2.5 buyins, and he was a nit, i.e only bets the nuts but lays down when he gets counterfeited, you play this hand OOP very differently than vs the same villian with 35bb behind, an unknown with 35 bb behind, or LAG tard push monkeys with a full buyin.

KoRnholio

04-14-2007, 06:31 PM

#10 (permalink)

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[quote="glass_onion"]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

LSS, if you are calling you have to have some read that says he is either a call monkey, or someone capable of laying down. Stack sizes have to be decent for both, so he isn't pot committed (or thinks he is). And you will have to bluff a flush card, period, or it won't be +EV. Your recent play and his recent play come into these calcs/reads.

All quite true. Often you will end up taking one card off for a 7 out draw (one K, three Q's and three T's) and then have to check-fold the turn. With deep enough stacks it can be profitable though.

Some days it feels like I've been standing forever, waiting for the bank teller to return so I can cash in all these Sklansky Bucks.

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